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What happens if models are so far out of coherency that you cannot get them back into coherency in a single movement. Then you are in the situation where if you run, you still won't make it into coherency, BUT if you assault an enemy unit which lies between the two halves of your unit, you can make it into coherency.
Must you perform the assault? Can/Must you forfeit the run if assaulting will take you into coherency and you do not have fleet?
Can you opt to assault if you can only achieve coherency by getting a high result on the run?

(I know its a ridiculous situation, and would require your unit to be over 24" out of coherency... but I thought it would be an interesting discussion)

Relevant rules:

BRB wrote:During the course of a game, it's possible a unit will get broken up and lose unit coherency, usually because it takes casualties. If this happens, the models in the unit must be moved in such a way that they restore coherency in their next movement phase. If the unit cannot move for some reason in its next turn (because they are pinned down by a barrage or sniper fire, for example), then the must move the restore unit coherency as soon as the have the opportunity.

FAQ wrote:
Q: What happens if an out of coherency unit is able to
move, but not able to restore unit coherency in a single
movement phase? (p12)
A: They must attempt to restore unit coherency as soon
as possible, including having to Run! in the Shooting
phase if able.

Trasvi wrote:(I know its a ridiculous situation, and would require your unit to be over 24" out of coherency... but I thought it would be an interesting discussion)

lol This. Right here. I don't think it is even possible to be that far spread thin with most normal units. A huge mob of boyz, maybe. But they would be like:

BBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBB

then

B.........................................................B

Likelihood? Not much. Plus, it would take a pretty bad player to remove models in a fashion that resulted in this.

Regardless, I wouldn't let them assault. Make a JSJ jetbike movement? Sure. But if you are out of coherency, you have to get back into it before doing a voluntary action: assaulting would be voluntary. They would sit out of coherency until next turn, at which point they would again move together.

Because the unit is able to run in the shooting phase, they must run thanks to the FAQ. Pinned units, who are unable to run, would of course not, but pretty much every other unit I can think of can run--no shooting to prevent running.

So in the case of ork boyz being spread out, if after their move they are still out of coherency, then they must run. If they are still out of coherency, and are able to assault (waaagh perhaps) then I would say that if the move would place them back in coherency they MUST assault, as the assault is their earlist opportunity to move back into coherency.

If an assault move would not bring the unit back into coherency, and the unit can still assault after it runs, I would say only if the assault move also moves the unit closer together would assaulting be allowed. Thus, if the assault would require a lateral move that doesnt get the models closer, or if interveining units/terrain make an assault seperate the out of coherency even farther, then you are not moving back into coherency as your earliest opportunity.

If this is in refrence to scarab bases being created halfway across the board via canoptek spyders, clearly being forced to run into coherency is a penalty for the scarabs as they can no longer assault, which makes sense that they are penalized for burrowing up from the tomb world so far away.

EDIT: meh, scarabs are beast now so get fleet, right? So I guess its not much of a penalty to make them run...

One thing to keep in mind is that one of the rules for assaulting is that each model moved aside from the first must be moved into coherency with one that has already moved. Thus if there is no way for them to assault which would put them back in coherency it's an illegal assault move.

So the hypothetical situation where they are in range to assault but it wouldn't cause them to regain coherency results in them not moving, and even if it would bring them closer to coherency they are explicitely prohibited from doing it.

xlEternitylx wrote:
Likelihood? Not much. Plus, it would take a pretty bad player to remove models in a fashion that resulted in this.

Regardless, I wouldn't let them assault. Make a JSJ jetbike movement? Sure. But if you are out of coherency, you have to get back into it before doing a voluntary action: assaulting would be voluntary. They would sit out of coherency until next turn, at which point they would again move together.

Well, you're not allowed to remove *normal* models like that. You would have to have a long, long line of boys, and then a nob/IC at each end.
An actual situation where it could occur is a unit of marines spread out over only 8 inches in terrain. If two models in the middle (two plebs, when dudes at the end have flamers/missiles) fall to shooting, and if they were at maximum distance for coherency. They could end up rolling snake eyes for movement through terrain and running, and end up in a situation where assaulting (or attempting to assault) would put them into coherency again.
The idea actually came up in the Necron Scarab + Spyder debate, when I realised that the rules never state or imply that models must be deployed in coherency.

However, I'm not sure where you got the 'voluntary' idea from. I quoted the relevant rules and FAQ and that word doesn't appear. Theoretically, yes, as it forces you to move and then run, but not explicitly.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

Chrysis wrote:One thing to keep in mind is that one of the rules for assaulting is that each model moved aside from the first must be moved into coherency with one that has already moved. Thus if there is no way for them to assault which would put them back in coherency it's an illegal assault move.
So the hypothetical situation where they are in range to assault but it wouldn't cause them to regain coherency results in them not moving, and even if it would bring them closer to coherency they are explicitely prohibited from doing it.

Nice catch, thanks for that.

A couple of things:

1) Unit coherency is restored during the Movement phase. If the unit is in coherency after the Movement phase but later is not, it's not forced to get into coherency unit the following Movement phase.
2) If the unit is not in coherency after the Movement phase, the unit must make every attempt to get back into unit coherency, including running during the Shooting phase.
3) A unit that assaults must be in coherency AFTER the assault move.

Therefor, in the OP, the unit can Assault provided the unit is in coherency at the end of the assault move. If it cannot get into coherency, it can't assault.

I don't think the unit is HAS to assault, otherwise the FAQ would have stated such. I'd hate to have to force my Necron warriors to assault a unit of Eldar Banshees just for the "pleasure" of getting into unit coherency.

TheGreatAvatar wrote:
3) A unit that assaults must be in coherency AFTER the assault move.

No! After the first model is moved in the assault (ie the closest to closest) then each following model must finish it's assault move in coherency with a model in it's unit that has already made it's assault move. Page 34, Moving Assaulting Models. In fact, it even states that this is the most important rule for moving assaulting models. And yet, so many people think as you do. Just to be clear, here's the text from the rulebook:

• The most important one is that each model must end its assault move in coherency with another model in its own unit that has already moved.

don_mondo wrote:

TheGreatAvatar wrote:
3) A unit that assaults must be in coherency AFTER the assault move.

No! After the first model is moved in the assault (ie the closest to closest) then each following model must finish it's assault move in coherency with a model in it's unit that has already made it's assault move. Page 34, Moving Assaulting Models. In fact, it even states that this is the most important rule for moving assaulting models. And yet, so many people think as you do. Just to be clear, here's the text from the rulebook:

• The most important one is that each model must end its assault move in coherency with another model in its own unit that has already moved.

Subtle mistake on my part. You're right, each model must finish ITS movement in unit coherency. This still permits a unit not in coherency to assault, the additional restriction being the models must be able move into coherency while doing it.