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The wording of determining LOS for shooting has me really confused.

Let's use this diagram here:



Let's say that both units are in coherency and the black box is LOS blocking terrain for simplicity.

The checking LOS rules tell me that there are two possible cases that can occur due to the use of the word "through":

1. Only Model 1A is able to fire. Ranks 1 and 2 cannot fire because LOS is determined on a model to model basis, and the black box infront of them is clearly blocking their LOS to the unit Model 1A is targeting.

2. Ranks 1 and 2 are able to use Model 1A's LOS in order to fire at the unit is targeting, and Rank 2 is able to ignore Rank 1 when firing.

Which is correct Help me out Dakka!

1A would be firing into cover (since he can't see half of the target unit).

Rank 2 would be allowed to ignore Rank 1 if they could shoot, but since none of those models have LOS, it's a moot point.

Agreed with Rigeld for the most part.

However I think Cover is worked out on a unit vs unit, not a shooting model vs target. ( might be wrong there let me know )

Ok it seems like the question isn't being noticed:

Which case is correct? Case 1 or Case 2?

AresX8 wrote:Ok it seems like the question isn't being noticed:

Which case is correct? Case 1 or Case 2?

The number/letter below, than I agreed with him except for the reason of the cover save ...

rigeld2 wrote:1A would be firing into cover (since he can't see half of the target unit).

Rank 2 would be allowed to ignore Rank 1 if they could shoot, but since none of those models have LOS, it's a moot point.

jdjamesdean@mail.com wrote:Agreed with Rigeld for the most part.

However I think Cover is worked out on a unit vs unit, not a shooting model vs target. ( might be wrong there let me know )

Again, you're not answering the question. You are mentioning specifics, but you are not directly answering the question.

"1. Only Model 1A is able to fire. Ranks 1 and 2 cannot fire because LOS is determined on a model to model basis, and the black box infront of them is clearly blocking their LOS to the unit Model 1A is targeting."
This is correct, mostly.

If a model can not see any model in the target unit, it can not fire.

That said, only 1A has Los, so he can shoot. Maybe the farthest right guys in rank 1 and rank 2 might have LoS, so they might be able to shoot (If they can see the tiniest bit of any enemy model they can shoot).

Only model 1A; 5th Edition uses something Called TLOS for firing.

jdjamesdean@mail.com wrote: 5th Edition uses something Called TLOS for firing.

As did every other edition.


5th edition has abstracted it slightly compared to previous editions, in that you can target the unit if you can see a single model in it. However, your models still each need LOS in order to fire at that unit. Any models that do not have LOS can not fire.

insaniak wrote:

jdjamesdean@mail.com wrote: 5th Edition uses something Called TLOS for firing.

As did every other edition.


5th edition has abstracted it slightly compared to previous editions, in that you can target the unit if you can see a single model in it. However, your models still each need LOS in order to fire at that unit. Any models that do not have LOS can not fire.

not entirely from what I've heard about 4th edition and being able to hide behind some trees because you couldn't shoot through them.

Just my take on it though considering I started with 5th.

jdjamesdean@mail.com wrote:not entirely from what I've heard about 4th edition and being able to hide behind some trees because you couldn't shoot through them.

Area terrain and close combats used a slightly different system, yes, as they did in earlier editions and still do now. The rest of the game used true LOS. It's been the core of the LOS rules since Rogue Trader.