Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Im going to be playing a 1500pt per person Apoc game in a week or so, and I want to use Death Troops of Krieg, however I want to outflank a platoon, or at least have that option. Being that nothing says I can attach Al'Raheem to the list. Is it Possible to use Creeds 'Tactical Genius' and outflank the Platoon.

P.S the game isnt a 1v1 1500, its 4v4

I thought it said squad or unit, so no, you could outflank a PIS or PCS but not the whole platoon

If memory serves

It's Apoc, so conventional FOC rules do not apply unless you've specially agreed to them. Consequently, you should be able to field Al Rahem. It's really no different to fielding Creed. It'll be the unit that outflanks, not the Troops choice, so it'll only be a squad as motyak says. You could still take a blob and outflank it though.

Also: Death Korps. Not Death Troops.

I thought a 'Unit' forsay was something that took a spot on the FOC. Being that Platoons must deploy at same time, and with e.a other *if meory is correct* the entire Platoon should be able to outflank. They are a unit. A unit with many squads. Or am I just compleatly missing something?

yeah, they are chosen as part of the same foc bit, but that is as close as they get to one anything. they give away 1 kp per squad, not per platoon. you can only outflank one squad, not one platoon with creed.

If you blobbed them into one unit, you might get away with it.

Once the infantry squad is blobbed then yes, it can outflank (all 20, 30, 40 or 50 of them)

Yeah, if Creed could do the entire platoon, then it would make Al'rehems rules somewhat moot.

Okay, thank you, wasnt sure.

forruner_mercy wrote:Yeah, if Creed could do the entire platoon, then it would make Al'rehems rules somewhat moot.

Not really. Instead of being outflanked by 50 men, your getting outflanked by 100 men

Jihallah wrote:

forruner_mercy wrote:Yeah, if Creed could do the entire platoon, then it would make Al'rehems rules somewhat moot.

Not really. Instead of being outflanked by 50 men, your getting outflanked by 100 men

Agreed, or 200+ . Platoons get big. 132 is max # of people in a platoon, i think. Not adding commisars, Priests, etc

ImpGuardPanzies wrote:I want to use Death Troops of Krieg

As was said before: Death Korps of Krieg

Do you mean that you use the minis and play with the Codex: Imperial Guard? Or do you mean the Siege Regiment Army List? The latter does NOT allow you to use characters or units from the Codex: Imperial Guard.

A Krieg army with SRAL rules is not allowed to have Al'Raheem or Creed!

Jihallah wrote:

forruner_mercy wrote:Yeah, if Creed could do the entire platoon, then it would make Al'rehems rules somewhat moot.

Not really. Instead of being outflanked by 50 men, your getting outflanked by 100 men

trust me, even at 2500+, al'harim outflanking 40 infantry, his own command squad and 2 full special weapon squads all squads with melta is /plenty/ to ruin someone's day

CREEEEEEEEED is for outflanking titans.

Normally, if your using the seige regement list from Imperial Armor, you wont be able to use anything out of the the IG Codex, it wouldnt be allowed. If this is an Apoc game though, Then FOC goes right out the window. Now Al'Raahem is an upgrade to a PCS, so that wont work with a Krieg Platoon.. Closest you can do, Blob up your infantry squads of a platoon, and then have Creed outflank that blob of infantry, but not the entire platoon.

Apoc on the one hand, FOC (or the lack of it) on the other, you'd still be using two totally different army lists.

Just because it's Apoc doesn't mean I can field Tau using the Tau rulebook along with Creed using the Codex: IG, to make it a bit more obvious.

Actually, it does. Theres a chart of allies, as long as you agree that you can use more than one army...you can. And Krieg is still an IG army, just a different branch. And that branch has been expanded on to the point of needing an entire different list. Same with elysa... Just like using SM and BA or BT

Hm, I didn't know that, thx.

Even the chart is only there for fluff reasons and to show how strong the case would be for each alliance.

I could run a Blob Squad and attach Skulltaker along with a GKGM to the blob if I wanted to.

OK, so I got to look at the Apocalypse Rulebook and the closest thing I could find is:

"allied forces: ally with a friend's force to make a larger points total. [..] if you own more than one army yourself (or just have a few units of an army that you started but never finished), you can combine them all for a joint attack."

(note: two armies = joint attack = not one army!)

That'd allow you to field 3000 pts, for example, and you can take 1000 pts Krieg and 2000 pts IG – or 1000 pts Orks and 2000 pts 'Nids.
That would make them two allied armies. Not one army.
And each of the armies has to stick to their own rules/codizes.

For Creed it says he can give one unit in your army the rules of scouts. Since you field two armies, that means the one army that he's in.

As another example, Ork Dok Grotsnik wouldn't be able to allow allied 'Nids to buy the body armour.

Unless the rule says "friendly unit" instead of "unit in your army".

Short:
You can't field one army using rules from two codizes!

IG codex says that you can make special characters to match the characters of the IG codex, just with different names, all you have to do is let your opponent and teammates know your doing it and show any changes made(if there are any) doesnt say it has to be of same army. So making a Krieg 'Lord Castlen Greed' is totaly an option. Problem solved....

Being that Death Korp is a branch of IG...still relative armies. Im not saying to do it with IG and Eldar. but from SM to BA or visa versa... or IG to IG vaient, Kroot codex to Tau codex for the kroots options. totaly possible

Just to clarify this:
We are speaking about a Death Korps army making use of the Siege Regiment Army List with one Character with the rules from the Codex: Imperial Guard. Not about playing the Death Korps miniatures with the Codex: IG rules (that would be OK)!

Yes, they are both IG, but it's still two different codices, ie.: two armies.

IG codex says that you can make special characters to match the characters of the IG codex ...

Doesn't mean you can use this character in a totally different Codex / Army List.

- Everything you field as part of the Siege Regiment Army List has to be played after the rules of the SRAL.
- Everything you field as part of the Codex: IG has to be played after the rules of the Codex: IG.

You just cannot take the WS4 of the Death Korps (SRAL) and the special rule of the Cadians together.

Comparison:
A player fields Blood Angels with 'Rites of Battle' and a some Ultramarines. The rule 'Rites of Battle' would not apply to the Ultramarines, only to the Blood Angels army. Everyone would agree to that, right?

Again: Two Codices = two armies. One Codex = One army.
There is no "One Army with two Codices"

Alright. I quit. Mainly because I dont care anymore. But your right.