menoth lists

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**origarmi chicken**

Are these lists any good

25pts list
High Exemplar Kreoss 5
Repenter 4
Revenger 6
Crusader 6
Choir of Menoth (Leader and 3 Grunts) 2
Deliverer Sunburst Crew (Leader and 2 Grunts) 3
Deliverers (Leader and 5 Grunts) 5
Allegiant of the Order of the Fist 2
Paladin of the Order of the Wall 2

35pt list
High Exemplar Kreoss 5
Repenter 4
Revenger 6
Crusader 6
Choir of Menoth (Leader and 3 Grunts) 2
Deliverer Sunburst Crew (Leader and 2 Grunts) 3
Deliverers (Leader and 5 Grunts) 5
Temple Flameguard (Leader and 5 Grunts) 4
Temple Flameguard Officer & Standard 2
Visgoth Juviah Rhoven & 2 Honor Guard 4
Allegiant of the Order of the Fist 2
Paladin of the Order of the Wall 2

I am just starting (only have 15pts

) but the game is so adictive I know what i want to get next

so what are your thoughts on these lists? how would you use them?

**AngryMarine**

This looks like a list that used to circulate back in mark 1. Kreoss pops feat, Deliverers bombard stuff, effective but boring. You'll get real tired of it real fast. If you ever hear the term "drop and pop", they're talking about just that. Occasionally you'll run into a list that can't be knocked down (ie Talion charter pirates, or any caster that has the solid ground spell). Firing off all those templates will take forever to resolve then, drag out the game, and prolly bore the bejesus out of whoever you're playing.

I would drop anything and everything having to do with deliverers. As for good Kreoss stuff, I'd look into getting...
1. The Avatar of Menoth
2. Reckoner
3. Wracks
4. Choir
5. Vassal of Menoth
6. Knights Exemplar
7. Idrian Skirmishers
8.Zealots
9. The Covenant of Menoth.
10, Temple flameguard

I could write you a couple lists and explain their function, but it will probably be more fun to come up with your own. I'll do it for the asking though.

**12thRonin**

I think this is the first time I've ever seen "Yeah, that's effective so don't do it.". He doesn't have at least one Redeemer or max Deliverers so this isn't a proper pop & drop list. If dropping 7 templates bores you, lord help you if you ever see a epic Irusk double WGDS list with the Behemoth and the Wagon. Zealots and Idrians really don't have a place in a pKreoss list.

**origarmi chicken**

So should I drop the deliveres and atachment for
Idrian skirmishers and atachment?
But I really do want to get a sunburst crew as it is really the only ranged weapon in the lists.

**12thRonin**

Keep the Deliverers. Idrians are one of the units that got slammed too hard coming from mk1 to mk2.

**origarmi chicken**

OK thanks for the advice
so the list I have at the moment is OK?

**AngryMarine**

Yes, buy the deliverers, and when you move on to your next caster, marvel at the one trick pony unit you wasted a ton of money on. They are next to useless with anyone but P. Kreoss, and maybe Sevarius. Idrians get a lot of crap for not being what they were in mark 1, but it is still a solid unit, useable by a number of casters. Zealots, ditto.

**derek**

I agree with Zealots being a better buy, but I personally do not like Idrians. Mostly from an aesthetic stand point, but I'm also not a fan of the point cost. They're near the bottom of my "I'll buy at some point" list, right around Deliverers and the Sunburst. And I say that as someone that has played a good majority of their MK2 games with pKreoss.

**12thRonin**

9/13 Idrians since you have to have a the UA for them to be remotely useful as opposed to 8 for a max unit of Deliverers who can drop a MAT 11, POW 16 5" AOE or do AoE drifts to hit high def infantry / stealth. Yeah, they're great. I'd rather have one unit that gets played with a single caster (or three) than a case warmer unit that doesn't come out more than a couple times ever.

Zealots are great for scenarios and are great fun for epic Feora.

**AngryMarine**

If you had any clue how good prey is, you would laugh at your post too.

**12thRonin**

I do know how good prey is. I also know how you're putting lipstick on a pig. Hey, if you're fine with putting that much into one unit, go for it. Throw those points into making a bad unit passable or trying to get those points back out of them.

**origarmi chicken**

so should I try the list with deliverers and if they are no good get the Idrians?

**AngryMarine**

Don't get me wrong, Deliverers will be fine with Kreoss, but long term will not be a unit that you will use very much. I just don't want to see anyone make the same mistake I did in buying this unit. If I were a fisherman, Deliverers would be my sinkers.
I have torn people asunder with Idrians (though admittedly, I play more Magnus than Protectorate) and will back a proven, multi-use unit.
My advice, is proxy out both units. The good things are not always obvious, and experience will win out in the end.

**12thRonin**

And Magnus has the one thing they need that Menoth doesn't have that makes them good...

**origarmi chicken**

Thank you
I will proxy both and maybe get both if they are both good
hope they are as I like the look of both of them

**CATACLYSMUS**

At some point, you will also want to look into getting the Fire of Salvation.

**origarmi chicken**

Thanks
what is the fire of salvation ( I know it's a heavy 'jack) but why is it so good? and how many points is it?

**Haganedragon**

I just started playing Warmachine recently too, and have been getting a lot of advice from my local store, Asgard games. It apparently is one of the strongest metas in the U.S. The owner, Will, has placed 1st or 2nd in several major master tournaments.

Fire Salvation is upgraded Crusader that costs 9pts that has attunement to Kreoss and couple extra abilities http://battlecollege.wikispaces.com/mkiiFire+of+Salvation. It's questionable if it's worth the points. He is okay, and depending on the situation can be very good. He also has a movement of 5. That said their are better jacks to take for the point costs that will be good in more varied situations. I've been told the Reckoner is one of Menoth's best jacks for points in the game, and Avatar of course is awesome, even at 11 points, because anything that produces it own focus is great and has the highest MAT of all the warjacks. I also have seen Vanquishers and Templars used consistently.

One set of units that have not been mentioned is the Errant Knights which are a must have. They are a great tar pit unit because of their ability for someone else in the unit to die in place for another one in the unit. This allows two things:

1. It keeps the opponent model engaged and 2. It breaks any of the attacking models abilities that activates when it kills something because your model that is sacrifice itself is being killed by his own ability not by the opponent.

**origarmi chicken**

Thanks Hagendragon, thank link is super cool

I was wondering If I should get another Jack and I love the look of the Templar but should I get hat the fire of salvation or a vanquisher???

**Haganedragon**

The Reckoner,Templar, and Vanquisher come from the same Heavy warjack box set. So you can buy one and set up some magnets so you can switch the arms to change them from one to the other. So by purchasing two of them it can give options of fielding two reckoners, or reckoner and templar, templar and vanquiesher ect ect ect.

**CATACLYSMUS**

Haganedragon wrote:The Reckoner,Templar, and Vanquisher come from the same Heavy warjack box set. So you can buy one and set up some magnets so you can switch the arms to change them from one to the other. So by purchasing two of them it can give options of fielding two reckoners, or reckoner and templar, templar and vanquiesher ect ect ect.

Almost right. The box includes the Crusader, Templar, and Vanquisher. Reckoner is separate.

**Chagear**

Got a Rek myself and must say, that heavy jack does not quit! a good ranged weapon that my vassal will make fire again and again so that I don't have to spend so much focus hitting my targets, just beating them!

**origarmi chicken**

I might get a rekoner then instead of the suburst and the deliverers

**12thRonin**

Don't forget Assault on the Reckoner. That's always a fun time.

**Kogwar**

origarmi chicken wrote:Are these lists any good

25pts list
High Exemplar Kreoss 5
Repenter 4
Revenger 6
Crusader 6
Choir of Menoth (Leader and 3 Grunts) 2
Deliverer Sunburst Crew (Leader and 2 Grunts) 3
Deliverers (Leader and 5 Grunts) 5
Allegiant of the Order of the Fist 2
Paladin of the Order of the Wall 2

35pt list
High Exemplar Kreoss 5
Repenter 4
Revenger 6
Crusader 6
Choir of Menoth (Leader and 3 Grunts) 2
Deliverer Sunburst Crew (Leader and 2 Grunts) 3
Deliverers (Leader and 5 Grunts) 5
Temple Flameguard (Leader and 5 Grunts) 4
Temple Flameguard Officer & Standard 2
Visgoth Juviah Rhoven & 2 Honor Guard 4
Allegiant of the Order of the Fist 2
Paladin of the Order of the Wall 2

I am just starting (only have 15pts ) but the game is so adictive I know what i want to get next
so what are your thoughts on these lists? how would you use them?

exemplars work very well with eKreoss and support deliveres well and i prefer them over flame guard alogn withcinerators

**YELLOWBLADES**

personally i am not familliar twith these kind of menoth lists because they use deliverers and flameguard, which are much different from my usual infantry,

the lists work well and are quite different from my menoth list

eKreoss
Repenter
Revenger
Crusader
Vanquisher
Avatar of Menoth
5 Cinerators
5 Bastions
Full choir of menoth

around 50points

as long as you have a choir and a few warjacks as the backbone of your force not much can go wrong with the infantry
i picked the cinerators and bastions because they work well apart and as a force

i recommand some bastions for your force

however i have a warjack too many for 1 warcaster

good luck with menoth

**origarmi chicken**

Thanks YELLOWBLADES I have got a unit of cinerators (actually forgot about this thread

)
I should now change my lists to what I actually have

25 pts
p Kreos
crusader 6
revenger 6
repenter 4
heirophant 2
choir 2
alleigent of the order of the fist 2
cinerators 8

And to make it 35 pts
flame guard cleansers 5
with oficer 2
exemplar seneschal 2
vassal mechanik 1

Or use E Kreos and put a wrack in the list
E kreos would then make the whole army (infantry) imune to continuous effect fire, but at the same time setting every one else on fire

**YELLOWBLADES**

origarmi chicken wrote:Thanks YELLOWBLADES I have got a unit of cinerators (actually forgot about this thread )
I should now change my lists to what I actually have

25 pts
p Kreos
crusader 6
revenger 6
repenter 4
heirophant 2
choir 2
alleigent of the order of the fist 2
cinerators 8

And to make it 35 pts
flame guard cleansers 5
with oficer 2
exemplar seneschal 2
vassal mechanik 1

Or use E Kreos and put a wrack in the list
E kreos would then make the whole army (infantry) imune to continuous effect fire, but at the same time setting every one else on fire

ok, nice force, it looks like an all round good force