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I have played a few small games with my pal who is eldar. we have run games between 500 and 750 points (Short and Sweet). I run a salamanders army lead by a chaplain. Now, for those who need some tactics on killing the Eldar, go for the throat.
Take out those tuff units which do serious damage. Sounds like a no brainer right? but you'd be suppised how distracting it is shooting the little guys.
WHat i have found is that Guardian squads would do more damage if they urinated on your armour, so worry at all, just ignore them untill the time is right.
Dont worry about their scatter lasers. Heavy 4 might be a little daunting but most of their units have BS 3, so chances of them hitting a small and with pathetic armour pen you get a save every time.
Dont dismiss Dire Avengers! my first game againt my friend saw my 5 man squad of marines slaughtered by the DA. Bladestorm is shocking, a caught me totally of guard and killed my unit. That being said, they cant shoot the next turn so payback will be interesting.
From a Space Marines point of view, dark reapers are scary. S 5, AP 3, Heavy 2, even though my friend fields 3 of them at a time, they do manage to punch a hole is your squad. Keep an eye on those guys.

Anyone have any other tactics to share? Victories to boast about? Would also be good if we can get some Eldar players to defend themselves, tell us why we should be afraid

At low points, if you are facing Guardians, DAs, amd Dark Reapers, all combined into one list, then what you are facing is a REALLY bad list. Do not confuse your experience against that list with experience against Eldar in general.

You should fear Scatter Lasers, as good lists spam enough of them to make any MEQ army cry.

As for Guardians, You should fear Storm Guardians that pop out of a WS with Flamers and Destructor, especially if your squad is dommed. You should also be wary of Guardian defenders in a proper list for them...Footdar/Elfzilla, as they will be providing cover fire for the really scary parts of the amy, they will be fearless, and they will score.

You should NOT be scared of Dark Reapers, because they are one of the WORST Heavy choices for Eldar (only heavy weapon platforms are worse)...be happy that he isn't using DAVU Falcons, Prisms, WWs, or Wraithlords.

Overall, your views of Eldar are very skewed because you are facing a hodge-podge list with no synergy; therefore, you have made poor decisions about the true strenght of units, when they are used in the proper context. Unfortunately, this will only make you unprepared to face a solid Eldar list.

Alerian certainly hit the nail more on the head for what I fear from Eldar lists. Eating 24 Str 6 shots is never fun when he's going to do it to you more, not to mention how silly rock solid most of their assault tools can be, or the tanks for that matter. It's one of the few times I'm happy to be DE because we at least don't suffer any more in that regard than we usually do when hunting tanks.

Probably spammed scatter lasers, most of the vehicles in general, and anything involving Seer Councils top my list.

I will say I think Alerian is off his sod for fearing Wraithlords - they're okay, but a pretty substandard choice for the slot in my opinion. Admittedly I just poison it to death - but most other armies have a solid answer to something whose big defense is 'high T'. GK's just laugh, Blood Angels have basically tougher stuff, Wolves have a couple ways to eat it. I think they're pretty substandard in the current environment.

They're S10 T8 MCs, now the only T8 MCs in the 40k, afaik, with the C'tan changes. Even so, I agree that a Wraithlord isn't scary. 3 Wraithlords and the Avatar however, are damn scary in a proper footdar list, especially if you count in Wraithguard who actually give cover to Wraithlords!

Why do Wraithguard give cover to Wraithlords? I was under the impression that infantry can't provide cover to MCs.

Also, I'm sorry to say to the OP, but the other posters are right. Your opponent isn't fielding a particularly scary Eldar list. 4 shots from a single Guardian unit's Scatter Laser isn't a bit deal, but most Eldar lists put out well over 50 S6 shots if that's what they're looking to do. You should also bear in mind that Eldar units are overpriced in terms of points, so they tend not to shine in games with low points caps. Search around on the net for some battle reports with Eldar. When they use 3 Serpents with say, a Farseer, Fire Dragons, Dire Avengers and Storm Guardians or maybe Banshees...all of that backed up more than 50 S6 shots opening transports and softening squads...then you'll see where Eldar can be really scary.

Infantry can absolutely give cover to MCs ( and tanks) if they obscure more than 50% of the MC (or tank). Thats why Gargoyles are good in Flyrant lists.

dnanoodle wrote:Why do Wraithguard give cover to Wraithlords? I was under the impression that infantry can't provide cover to MCs.

It's the 50% coverage rule. I think the Wraithguard are tall enough to obscure a Wraithlord so they can provide cover.

And they're quite tough in their own regard even if they are Over Priced.

lol Yeah obviously the lists your opponent plays lacks synergy (did he used to play marines?). Because the way i play my whole army will section you off into small pieces and eliminate you systimatically (our low toughness doesnt matter if none of your units that are still alive are close enough to shoot us after we have blown a chunk of your army to kingdom come.) and after that you're now fighting an uphill battle.

I understand how salamanders do so well vs eldar (esp if you got hestan in there) heavy flamers that are TL cause horrendous casualties to eldar as most of our core units have a 4+ armor save. However you wont be able to use the flamers if you're dead, this is why you should fear eldar (that and the fact that in a mech eldar army we are so fast, there is next to nothing you can do to stop us from completing plan stated above).

@Ronin/rigeld2
Wow I wish I had known that. I could have been using my JBCouncil to screen my long-ranged AT and support transports. I mostly play with one guy and he doesn't use vehicles, so I doubt he understood that either. Though to be honest I'm not sure it would have changed a lot of games. Most of the time the Council is the target anyway.

But yeah, thanks for the clarification guys!

Eldar: overpriced? yeah.
Eldar: correctly priced? Overpowered.

Yeah, a proper Eldar list, be it Footdar or Mechdar, is a scary prospect indeed.

If you thought 5 DA with Bladestorm is scary, what about a full 10-man unit? Over 30 S4 AP5 shots being put out by 10 guys. And if the person is using a Biel-Tan themed army, chances are there 2 squads of them.

And, as said above, Dark Reaper are pretty meh. Fire Prisms and Night Spinners would be things to worry about.

forruner_mercy wrote:Yeah, a proper Eldar list, be it Footdar or Mechdar, is a scary prospect indeed.

If you thought 5 DA with Bladestorm is scary, what about a full 10-man unit? Over 30 S4 AP5 shots being put out by 10 guys. And if the person is using a Biel-Tan themed army, chances are there 2 squads of them.

And, as said above, Dark Reaper are pretty meh. Fire Prisms and Night Spinners would be things to worry about.

We havent even considered putting Guide and Doom in the equation yet.

Thor665 wrote:

I will say I think Alerian is off his sod for fearing Wraithlords - they're okay, but a pretty substandard choice for the slot in my opinion. Admittedly I just poison it to death - but most other armies have a solid answer to something whose big defense is 'high T'. GK's just laugh, Blood Angels have basically tougher stuff, Wolves have a couple ways to eat it. I think they're pretty substandard in the current environment.

Notice that I mentioned Elfzilla as one of the playstyles
In a proper foot Elfzilla list with 3x WL, the Avatar, Wraithguard, and Harlies, yes, Wraithlords are something to be concerned about.

My point was that pretty much all other heavy choices for Eldar, except the weapon platforms, have a place in competitive Eldar lists, while the Dark Reapers do not.

From a Space Marine's Prospective, how would you deal with 3 WL and an Avatar? Personally, i'd take Vulcan He'stan on the Avatar and nail the WL with predators and devastators. Would any1 do it differently?

I, as a BA player, say the best way of dealing with Elfzilla players is fast moving fire support. Baal and Regular Predators, Librarian with a Jump Pack and Blood Lance, Hunter Killer missiles... Remember, Wraithlords are Monstrous Creatures, but the weakness is they are slow. In a standard game it's odds on they will fail wraithsight at least once. Just move quickly, shoot loads, keep away and keep combat as a last resort.

BlapBlapBlap wrote:I, as a BA player, say the best way of dealing with Elfzilla players is fast moving fire support. Baal and Regular Predators, Librarian with a Jump Pack and Blood Lance, Hunter Killer missiles... Remember, Wraithlords are Monstrous Creatures, but the weakness is they are slow. In a standard game it's odds on they will fail wraithsight at least once. Just move quickly, shoot loads, keep away and keep combat as a last resort.

WLs never take wraithsight tests in Elfzilla. The Spiritseres with the Guardians assure that.
BTW, Elfzilla is nowhere near the strongest Eldar build. It is simply a solid build that gives Eldar players a choice besides Mechdar. Currently, Mechdar is the stongest build for Eldar.

Zambro wrote:From a Space Marine's Prospective, how would you deal with 3 WL and an Avatar? Personally, i'd take Vulcan He'stan on the Avatar and nail the WL with predators and devastators. Would any1 do it differently?

I'd say the Avatar would win that little showdown
WL die to something quite common- ML's. Krak missiles fit the bill very nicely for wraithlords. Especially when you catch it out of cover

Zambro wrote:From a Space Marine's Prospective, how would you deal with 3 WL and an Avatar?

In my experience as an Eldar player, heavy weapons are the bane of those particular units. The Avatar is slow and large enough to make a good target while not being very tough, and if you can focus a few missile launchers/lascannons or equivalent on him he tends to fold fairly quickly. Both wound on a 2+ and only leave him his invuln save, and you can take a chunk out of your opponent's point values that way. Likewise with Wraithlords: Heavy weapons. Missiles or lascannons, one shot in two or better is going to wound and you'll be bypassing the armor save. In the case of both, it's going to take a fair amount of heavy weapon fire to achieve a kill (which makes them a good bullet magnet for drawing fire), but it's the most effective method I've been on the receiving end of.

As to the statements of the uselessness of Dark Reapers, I disagree. Sure, I could slap another gravtank on there, but at least against MEQs I've had great success using them as snipers. I'd like something a little better than a three foot range sure, but if you plant them somewhere with clear lines of fire to help negate cover saves you can do a lot of damage. An Exarch with a Tempest Launcher and Crack Shot can do a ridiculous amount of damage as well, especially if you combine the whole volley with a recently busted open or evacuated transport. As with most Eldar units they have a limited purpose, namely killing MEQs, one of the reasons they're less favored vs other heavy choices like War Walkers, which can strap on the Scatter Laser barrage and be effective against just about anything and therefore fit well in an all comers list.

Unfortunately Wraithlords are in a bad position in an eldar army being slow. (if only Eldar had a webway portal...) in close combat they are tanks vs anything with str 4 or lower and 2 flamers vs hordes is awesome. the avatar is also fearsome especially if he is fortuned. However the problem with elfzilla lists is simple: Dark eldar and poison weps. They wreck this list, simple.

Mechdar properly done is horrifying as your army will be out manuevered and pulled apart in a most horrific manner So once again i would fear eldar more than most (i myself fear an eldar general better than myself, as it almost means i will lose its just the nature of the army). With eldar a quarter of the battle is list selection but the rest is being a good general and that means knowing your army and your opponents. Doing that the eldar general becomes a near unstoppable player.

Right your all saying eldar are over priced so here we go i did a post ealrlier and we talked about rangers and here you are talking about other units. Why not compare them to other units like say stern guard veterans im sure you will find a group of stern guard more expensive or snipers scouts with cloaks they are 23 points per model 3+ cover save in basic terrain, bs3 rending gun rangers with pathfinder 2+ cover in basic terrain ap1 weapon on a 5-6 to hit and rending bs4 and alot more rules all for 1 point. I think my point is made :-/

I dont loose games as Eldar.

Darkhorse, your point is not made. First of all, people don't field tons of Sternguard Vets either. Second, your comparison fails to mention the options available to those vets, their other special rules, their much better stats profile, their awesome power armor, or their special ammo. I don't see any way in which they compare to Rangers/Pathfinders.

Rangers/Paths are very inflexible and are not effective against most armies out there. They are one of like 3 units in the entire codex that can't move and fire, so they fit easily into the movement patterns of almost no Eldar list these days. There is more at play here than their shooting, stealth rule and points cost.

I said fire dragons compare to stern guard and pathfinders to scouts :-/ dnanoodle they are nothing alike are pathfinders and vets

I agree, you just havent't met a proper Eldar list then. Two wave serpents with 10 DA each, along with Eldrad/a Farseer who will doom/guide is nothing to underestimate. I use guardians as objective sitters only and won't give them a SL. Instead they will have an EML cause when you use a blast template the BS of 3 doesn't mean as much. Or I don't take foot guardians at all and use 3 guardians on jetbike, one with shuriken cannon along with a warlock on jetbike. Rangers can also be very efficient objective sitters against ranged armies. Instead of taking a unit of DA wait until an Eldar takes a Fire Prism instead. Way better Heavy Support choice which will grill your MEQ or blast your vehicle.

Also I have had much fun with 5 fire dragons in a WS.

dnanoodle wrote:Darkhorse, your point is not made. First of all, people don't field tons of Sternguard Vets either. Second, your comparison fails to mention the options available to those vets, their other special rules, their much better stats profile, their awesome power armor, or their special ammo. I don't see any way in which they compare to Rangers/Pathfinders.

Rangers/Paths are very inflexible and are not effective against most armies out there. They are one of like 3 units in the entire codex that can't move and fire, so they fit easily into the movement patterns of almost no Eldar list these days. There is more at play here than their shooting, stealth rule and points cost.

You obviously haven't played me-I always field sternguard Two squads in pods with regular SM, backed up by libby's usually containing gateway and nullzone and in my BA list I take a unit of 5 for small games with combi-meltas in a pod, a unit of ten in a big game with combi-meltas in pod to split off if need be and take out two vehicles at once, if possible. They can be devastating, albeit a bit suicidal. However, in the regular list a libby mitigates the suicidal, one-trick pony aspect of them.

Darkhorse
I'm sorry for misconstruing your point. But I still disagree now that you've clarified. Scouts having melta bombs and being more effective on the outflank is a critical element of how they're used. They also have options and that is another fundamental difference. If you want versatility from Rangers/Paths you have to get it in your deployment and from how you support them.

And I think Sternguard are only like Dragons if they are used as suicide melta and I think that's a poor use of both units. Sternguard are also pretty different with deep strike options and guns that have a rate of fire to support their use against a wider variety of targets.

In short, I just don't think comparing Eldar and Space Marines will ever satisfy. They're too different. And there are also other considerations such as the respective metas during the release of each codex and the editions as well.

Timetowaste
Haha, I knew someone would pop up and say something like that when I wrote that =) I'm glad they work for you because they're one of my favorite units in the C:SM.

Despite the ageing codex Eldar are still a high tier army in tournaments and often a scary list if played well. However most of them are still squishy

You are aware dnanoodle that we also have melta bombs. I did forget yes you can drop pod down. outflank who has outflank.

I was trying to make those comparisons separately. Paragraph one was for Scouts & Rangers.

If I could take SM Scouts in my Eldar army instead of Rangers I wouldn't even have to think about the choice. Scouts can get melta bombs and other special weapons. They also have a better armor save so they don't instantly die to regular flamers. Scouts and Rangers can both outflank but Rangers suck at it by comparison because Scouts can get those melta bombs and/or power fist, melta gun. Thus they can threaten armor from the board edge. Rangers can do little from outflanking (not nothing, mind you). Sure they have a few special rules (that barely make them worth using) the SMs don't, but hey SMs can't have eeeeverything can they?

Of course I realize Dragons have melta bombs