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I'm trying to work up a competative 2k list incorporating a Bell and this is what my first draft looks like. If the rat lovers here could look it over and let me know what you think, I'd really appreciate it.

Pts.......Unit
---------|--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
500.0 | Grey Seer, Screaming Bell (Other Trickster's Shard, Talisman of Preservation, Warpstone Tokens)
315.0 | Stormvermin x35 (FC, Razor Standard)

092.0 | Chieftan (BSB, Halberd, Portents of Venomous Doom)
130.0 | Warplock Engineer, Lvl 2 (Doomrocket)
233.5 | Clanrats x33, PWM (FC, Spears)

133.0 | Warplock Engineer, Lvl 2 (Death Globe, Warplock Pistol)

082.0 | Slaves x40 (Musician)

082.0 | Slaves x40 (Musician)

125.0 | Assassin (Rat Hound Bodyguard)
127.0 | Gutter Runners x4, Deathrunner (Poisoned, Snare-Net, Weeping Blade)

090.0 | Warp Lightning Cannon

090.0 | Warp Lightning Cannon

Quick rule question... are the Rat Hound Bodyguard's attacks also poisoned? I know I should know this but it's very late here and I'm too tired to think. :/

I have no experience with Screaming Bell so i can't really comment on the mega unit of 815pts.

But the rest of the units doesn't seem to have much staying power or combat res generating power. It does look like you want to be shooty with WLC and PWM.

Is there a way to fit in a WFT into the Stormvermin atleast?
I know people says clan rats should be HUGE, but i do think they can be stripped down enough just to be taken for warp fire throwers which i think is incredibly shooty!

*edit too much typos >.<

I suppose the easiest way to put another weapon team is to downgrade the Stormvermin to regular Clanrats with spears and shields. Still, not having a magic standard could suck.

EDIT: After thinking things through, it seems that I want the unit of rats pushing the bell to be more defensive than not so swapping the Stormvermin and the Clanrats might be a better way to go. I also juggled things around a little and got a second weapon team into the army. This should help out a little with both staying power and combat res generation.

Pts....Unit
------|----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
480 | Grey Seer, Screaming Bell (Earthen Rod, Other Trickster's Shard, Warpstone Tokens)
265 | Clanrats x35, WFT (FC, Shields, Spears)

094 | Chieftan (BSB, Halberd, Portents of Venomous Doom, Shield)
150 | Warplock Engineer, Lvl 2 (Death Globe, Dispel Scroll)
399 | Stormvermin x33, PWM (FC, Razor Standard, Shield)

138 | Warplock Engineer, Lvl 2 (Doomrocket, Warplock Pistol)

082 | Slaves x40 (Musician)

082 | Slaves x40 (Musician)

127 | Gutter Runners x4, Deathrunner (Poisoned Attacks, Snare-Net, Weeping Blade)

090 | Warp Lightning Cannon

090 | Warp Lightning Cannon

1997 Points

I know the Screaming Bell gives the Grey Seer a 4+ ward save, so his talisman of preservation can probably be scrapped...

Mind if I plop a tweak out and talk about it?

Grey Seer - earthing rod, OTS, screaming bell = 480

Assassin - weeping blade, dragonbane gem = 155
Engineer - level 2, dispel scroll = 125
Chieftain - BSB, foul pendant, charmed shield = 105
Engineer - doomrocket = 45

43 Stormvermin - full command, razor standard = 371
40 Clanrats - full command, spears, shields, PWM = 285
40 Slaves - musician = 82
40 Slaves - musician = 82

5 Gutter Runners - poison, slings = 90

WLC = 90
WLC = 90
-------
2000

There are certainly better items to give your bell seer, but I kept yours for now - the shard in particular is interesting, though it makes putting the assassin alongside the bell a dicey situation. Oh, and I did bring the assassin back, as you need somebody that can kill stuff in combat, though I guess I'm biased because my bell list uses two of them to great effect (hint: Death Frenzy is your friend, 5 assassin attaks rerolled is too legit to quit). I thinned down your engineers, dropping the toys and making the rocket rat just a rocket rat, who you can now skitterleap alongside the enemy line and let him go nuclear without caring. Partially this is because over 6 levels of magic I just don't think is very useful for skaven, where you have such limited ability to generate additional power dice. On the BSB, consider his gear totally replaceable; basically I earmarked 35 points for his survival gear and this stuff seemed to work well enough. The dragonbane gem on the assassin could make that 40 points. As your BSB is likely standing in the front of your only other block, I'd definitely invest in stuff to live.

But right, the main deal is, you needed more models in those two units, so there they are - WFT got dropped in the process but ah well. I say let the stormies push the bell myself, but with this set up you could do either - I guess the benefit of having the clanrats push is that the stormies are a stronger combat unit unassisted? Though of course they'll have the assassin with them and perhaps the BSB (for what that's worth ). All the same, I push my bell with 45 stormvermin and have had moderate success, probably slightly better than if it were pushed by clannies.

Last thing, I'd keep your gutters far far simpler, with no over-equipped deathrunner. Slings + poison makes them a serious threat to the things they're meant to kill (war machines), as well as letting them help with other things at range (monsters and small units), but 90 points means they can be tossed under the bus if you need to. Really, gutters aren't meant to fight things in combat, unless they're artillery or really weak chaff units.

What lore you thinking for the bell seer?

- Salvage

I'm assuming by your model count, you intend the Bell to be driving a bus where my model count was configured more for a horde. I can see a bus being the better way to go for a defensive unit. Do I really need more than a 50 model footprint for the Bell?

My original intent with the Seer was the 13th (obviously) and Plague for Wither and general bad times for my opponents as they chew through my slaves/Stormvermin. The goal being that when a unit is done with one unit of rats, they're too torn up/debuffed to be useful against anything else.

My two Warptokens:

- what's the minimum number on Gutter Runners? Thought it was 5. So Salvage's unit is the way to go. Plus, the Snare-Net is basically never, ever worth it now. -1WS/I and a 6+ armour isn't worth losing a poisoned attack.

- Honestly, I'd consider abandoning weapon teams all together with this list. The Bell has a lot of potential to make combats nearby much more favourable, and it is very vulnerable to cannons. The Stormbanner seems like a valuable item.

- A small unit of Plague Censer Bearers has been working really, really well for me. Maybe it could do the same for you? 8 of them costs under 100pts, so they're hardly worth much of your opponent's attention.

- Also, Deathfrenzy + Bless With Filth + a roll of 13 on the Bell...I never thought it'd happen. But then...30 hammerers turned to 3...

Anyway, the Bell at 2000 is tough, but I think this is about how you do it.

Warpsolution wrote:Anyway, the Bell at 2000 is tough, but I think this is about how you do it.

Okay then, what would you suggest is the appropriate points value to run a Bell?

The bell works best in terms of point denial + the 18" inspiring leadership IMO. Until the bell is dead, the unit pushing the bell is unbreakable - great
The offset to that, esp. at 2K, is that you have limited killy units - clanrats & slaves aren't that effective if you're opponent has a reasonable AS (only S3 so no save modifier), SV are better, WLC good if erratic & unreliable (why do mine blow up on the first turn ), GS with curse arguably the most killy but that has its own limitations . . .
Then when you compare the cost the the SB to that of say, a HPA, the expendature on the bell may not stack up too well. YMMV.

I've used a bell at 2K with good effect, so don't feel discouraged. Use it in a few games, then try swopping it for something else (models permitting) & see what works for you

I've got a friend saying similar things. I think I'll hold off on the running a bell for a while then and try a Plague Furnace first and see how that goes.

Thanks for the input.