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First get a couple of battle forces they will give you two platoons and a sentinel each, then grab a leader for your army (HQ)
Then get what IG do best Tanks!
Leman russ's are good the best one to start with is the normal one then maybe a demolisher.
I'm with Captain Knight on this one. The bones of your army will be in infantry squads and tanks, so they're a good place to start (Battleforces, Leman Russ). Go for the standard Leman Russ, rather than the Demolisher. The variants have a much more "standard tank" role (park and sling giant shells at good range) versus the Demolisher variants (which require a bit more maneuvering and planning).
It comes down to play style as well, so I'd say play some low point games with the basics and see where you go. Want a little more punch out of your infantry? Heavy weapon teams or Veterans (which can fortunately be modeled off of basic IG troops). Feel like you're lacking mobility? Chimeras. Like your tanks? More Leman Russ. Me personally, I'm a big fan of a few dug in heavy weapon teams to back up my basic line.
Yup... all about what you want to do with your list. IG codex is one of the best codexs out there for multiple ways to win.
I suggest start out with combat patrol size games (400pts or so) to get your feet wet before you start dumping tons of cash on vehicles. Then work your way up picking up stuff to fit your play style.
Learn the game, learn the rules, then you can spend your cash and know what you want and what you don't want.
Been playing 40k on and off since 89.
Armies...
Orks, Eldar, Lamentors, Pre-Heresy EC, CSM EC, and IG.
It all depends what you want out of your list? Do you want to spam infantry or armour?
If armour's the priority, I'd personally use the cadians as a couple of veteran squads and maybe put them in chimeras - easy troops choices that fix the guard BS 3 issue and give you access to a ton of special weapons. After that, just a play about with heavy support and, if the valkyrie's included, the veteran's go great in that too (personally I like to drop 3 meltaguns down from it before the enemy knows what's hit him/her).
However, if it's an infantry focus, then make it the main focus - lots and lots of cheap expendable infantry, maybe a penal legion squad for some hand to hand punch but they're more for fun. Then, once that's done, fill the rest of the points up with tanks. If the valkyrie still tickles your fancy, a special weapons squad may do well inside it. I'd recommend a chimera for the company command squad too, as it gives them a greater order range (measuring from the hull not the model) and makes them a hell of a lot more mobile.
These are just recommendations though, it's always good to put together lists yourself and experiment with their usefulness
thing is i was thinking two normal cadian units and a veteran squad in the valkyrie the veterans are all armed to the teeth with high powered short ranged weapons and shoot the hell out of anything beneath them whilst the cadians act as fodder and support, then the heavy weapons teams take out the enemies ranged weapons so they have to go up to the veteran squad
To have HWSs, you have to have a platoon. Vets only have what is in their listing. A platoon has to have a Platoon Command Squad and at least 2 Platoon Infantry Squads.
Platoons can have up to 5 PISs, 5 HWSs, 2 SWSs, and 1 Conscrip Squad (as well as the one PCS). PIS can 'blob' together and give you up to two blobs per Platoon, with either two 20 man blobs or a 20 and 30 man blob. You can even have a single 50 man blob, but blobs are a minimum of 2 PISs.
Been playing 40k on and off since 89.
Armies...
Orks, Eldar, Lamentors, Pre-Heresy EC, CSM EC, and IG.
I usally just feild one huge platoon and a vetran squad with a valkyrie like you said. Also you need comand squads because they can issue orders that can bost the effectiveness of your troops massivley.
So your army will work but a couple more squads will just add that ability to fire huge deadly voleys at the enemy
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/11/18 18:50:30
iC_D wrote:thing is i was thinking two normal cadian units and a veteran squad in the valkyrie the veterans are all armed to the teeth with high powered short ranged weapons and shoot the hell out of anything beneath them whilst the cadians act as fodder and support, then the heavy weapons teams take out the enemies ranged weapons so they have to go up to the veteran squad
I would advise against HW teams in games below 2000pts, as they are overpriced in terms of points if you want to use their most effective weapons, such as lascannons (although mortars are effective as they cost only 5 points more than their infantry squad slot and for this you loosen up a whole infantry squad to take more direct weaponry (e.g. Autocannons) as well as gaining antipersonnel weapons against hordes). For antitank fire support that is relatively cheap in points and does the job more effectively, use a vendetta. A bonus of using the vendetta is that you can use it to transport your veterans instead of valks, so its a case of two birds with one stone. If you need antipersonnel firepower, use scout sentinels, as these will last slightly longer than heavy weapon teams, maintain mobility while firing just as accurately and get into better firing positions due to their scout rule. A unit of three such sentinels will cost only 45 points more than a basic HW team and 30 points more than heavy bolter teams ( although admittedly HHB's have higher ap than multilasers, although multilasers have str 6).
If by two normal cadian units you mean two infantry platoons, I strongly advise you use the power blob configuration, consisting of a 20-30 man merged infantry blob with commissars, aplasm guns and power weapons for both commissar and sergeant. This is a unit that is almost impossible to destroy in close combat due to its sheer numbers and high leadership. It also tarpits elite units and will remove them model by model, turn by turn with power weapons. At range, with the PCS' first rank second rank will put down about 48 las shots per turn form a 30 man unit, and 3 plasma guns. A widely used veteran configuration is as follows: vet squads in vendettas, valks or chimeras. Then give them demo charges (the only doctrine worth its points) and x3 meltaguns. Use thus: roll/ fly rapidly towards enemy vehicles, deploy within 6", lob charge and balst with meltaguns, assault if not dead already with meltabombs. For this to be more likely to work, it's advisable to take 2-3 mechanized squads, so if one gets destroyed/ immobilized etc, there are more coming their way. A alternative tank-buster unit is five storm troopers with x2 meltaguns and the airborne assault spec op. Deepstrike them behind enemy armor and meltagun them. Even if they don't destroy the vehicle, the enemy will have to use some unit to kill the storm troopers, most probably the tank itself, saving your blobs from potentially devastating large blasts from hammerheads and whirlwinds, for example.
I have to disagree with you Banzaimash on some points.
A ACHWS at 75pts and in cover is more durable than Scout Sentinels due to the 4+ cover save, generates more fire power, can be twin linked against vehicles and MCs due to 'Bring it Down!' and is scoring.
A Lord Commissar either attached to a HWS or just stationed within 6" (for Aura of Discipline) of a HWS gives it his leadership score for Orders, Morale, and pinning checks. I would only attach him if he gets a Camo Cloak to give the unit Stubborn and a 3+ Cover save.
If Kell is used, units within 12" get the Regimental Standard benefits and his Officer gets to use his Ld score for Orders instead of the target unit's Leadership. Creed has a Ld of 10.
Kell and a Lord Commissar make a HWS very hard to route outside of close combat, but it is very rare to be able to afford both and most lists just use the Lord Commissar, due to his ability to give the HWSs Ld 10 for Morale checks if it does take alot of fire.
Multiple HWSs and Creed can wreck a Mech force very quickly.
I do not recommend plasma guns on BS 3 troops, it is a waste. Plasma guns should only go on BS 4 troops. I normally run my blobs with melta guns as it kills power armor and armor, as well as being a assault weapon. Another good weapon for BS 3 troops are Flamers, as they do not roll to hit and are assault weapons.
I will point out if you shoot rapid fire weapons, you can not assault into close combat. Pg 28 BRB.
All blob Sergeants should have Melta bombs IMO for anti-Dread capability as part of their standard kit. If a MC gets close enough to threaten a blob for close combat, your only defence is to shoot the heck out of it unless it is T 6 (or less).
I do not like to 'suicide drop' vets from a Vendetta/Valk. I consider it a waste of the troops and the vehicle as now every melta gun the enemy has will have a 'why not' shot on the vehicle. I would rather use the vehicle as a gunship (move 6" and shot, repeat) though I do like to make them scoring with a troop choice. I just go about it a different way and the 'Suicide drop' is a valid tactic, even if I don't like it.
Here is something I would look at if you want to do a foot list for 1500pts. It is only a option, and there can be several versions.
BlkTom wrote:I will point out if you shoot rapid fire weapons, you can not assault into close combat. Pg 28 BRB.
BlkTom, your points are sound, however, I don't believe that I mentioned rapid firing then charging. As two separate points, I highlighted the potential of the blobs at shooting and CQC.
Yeah, you wrote it fine in your post, but I wanted to stress it as a point so iC_D was aware of it. It is a very important rule for a foot Guard player to be aware of.
Been playing 40k on and off since 89.
Armies...
Orks, Eldar, Lamentors, Pre-Heresy EC, CSM EC, and IG.
I really enjoy armor personally. And i like playing my guard artillery style with company command squads sporting master of ordinance. But for starting out i bought the battle force, 3 chimeras, box of cadian troops and a valkerie for fun. I dont use platoons but rather veteran squads in chimeras for my troops.
'I cannot destroy Heresy. I can fight it. I can murder millions, billions, but as long as two humans live there will always be Heresy. No, i cannot destroy heresy, for only a god, no, THE god, our lord and divine god emperor, is the only one who can wipe out heresy. Till his return, i must do what i can to thin the swarm.
LordDraken wrote:I really enjoy armor personally. And i like playing my guard artillery style with company command squads sporting master of ordinance. But for starting out i bought the battle force, 3 chimeras, box of cadian troops and a valkerie for fun. I dont use platoons but rather veteran squads in chimeras for my troops.
I'm the same, but for a new guard player, Vet Mech can get expensive fast :(
LordDraken wrote:I really enjoy armor personally. And i like playing my guard artillery style with company command squads sporting master of ordinance. But for starting out i bought the battle force, 3 chimeras, box of cadian troops and a valkerie for fun. I dont use platoons but rather veteran squads in chimeras for my troops.
I'm the same, but for a new guard player, Vet Mech can get expensive fast :(
Thats true, but something for him to keep in mind down the road.
'I cannot destroy Heresy. I can fight it. I can murder millions, billions, but as long as two humans live there will always be Heresy. No, i cannot destroy heresy, for only a god, no, THE god, our lord and divine god emperor, is the only one who can wipe out heresy. Till his return, i must do what i can to thin the swarm.
I disagree with that. While yes it is true to make HWSs more effective you should look to add things like a Lord Commissar, Kell, or Creed (if your going to want to issue 4 Orders a turn, you might as well get Creed), but even on their own with a base CCS within 12", you place them in cover for a 4+ cover save and they become more durable than vehicle mounted weapons for cheaper and can still be twin linked with Orders. They are also scoring so you do not have to hold anything back if your attacking. If you do spend 70pts on a Lord Commissar, they have Ld 10 for Orders, Morale, and pinning checks (if they are within 6" of him). The CCS has to see the same target, but that is a huge advantage of Orders to make the HWSs more efficient, specially against vehicles and MCs. Two Vendettas with scoring troops in them (Say a naked PCS for 30pts) are a total of 320pts, while a naked Lord Commissar with two LC HWSs are 280pts. It really starts to add up! Hydras to be effective are usally a single Squad of 2. That is 8 AC shots on a single target, while a ACHWS is 6 AC shots each. Two AC HWSs are 12 AC shots compaired to the 8 TLed AC shots of the Hydra, but the HWSs can also be twin linked dependant on the target. For the same points, I think I will choose the higher volume of shots over longer range and TLed vs everything. Math wise, I am gonna guess they are about equal anyways (without the orders) at 6 hits (of 12 at BS 3) and 6 hits (of 8 TLed BS 3 shots) average. Between the Hydra and the HWSs, I will take scoring and durability (in cover) to give the HWSs a edge.
Lets do a breakdown...
Vendetta - 130pts
Vendetta is fast, so can move 6" a turn and fire all of it's weapons, 12" and fire a single weapon, or go 'Flat Out' for 24" and fire none but get a 4+ cover save. All of it's weapons are twin linked, so that makes up for the BS 3. It can carry troops and is a vehicle making it immune to small arms fire. The Vehicle also has the Scout special ability.
The drawbacks are to make it scoring your adding 30+ points to it. It is AV 12 so really not /that/ difficult to take down. If it Outflanks the model is so big that if any weapons are hanging off of the table edge, they can not fire that weapon. If a skimmer is immobilised and it went 'flat out' within the last turn, it is wrecked. It is also AV 10 rear armor if it is assaulted, but by being fast you /should/ move 6" every round to get a 4+ to hit against it.
Hydra - 75pts
Two twin linked ACs with a farther than normal range (72")and a special sensor on it to ignore the cover save of 'flat out' skimmers. With an additional heavy bolter on the front hull.
Drawbacks are that it is still BS 3, AV 12 vehicle that can be taken out with 1 shot. The Hydra to be fully effective can't move so it is easy to take out in assault (AV 10 side and rear and auto hits if the vehicle doesn't move).
LCHWS - 105pts
Three 2 Wound units. Scoring as they are part of a Platoon. In cover should get a 4+ cover save, can be twin linked if issued the Order 'Bring it Down!. Cheaper than a Vendetta.
Outside of cover they are dead. A Str 6 + shot will insta kill a team. Leadership 7 on their own for Orders, Morale, and pinning checks. Can not be given Voxs or a sergeant, BS 3 without Orders means your only hitting 1.5 out of 3 shots.
ACHWS - 75pts
Three 2 Wound units. Scoring as they are part of a Platoon. In cover should get a 4+ cover save, can be twin linked if issued the Order 'Bring it Down!. Has one more AC than the Hydra.
Outside of cover they are dead. A Str 6 + shot will insta kill a team. Leadership 7 on their own for Orders, Morale, and pinning checks. Can not be given Voxs or a sergeant, BS 3 without Orders means your only hitting 3 out of 6 shots.
Really, each has their pros and cons. Price is a huge issue, as a Valk kit from GW is $66 bucks, and you have to either convert up your model to make it a Vendetta or go to Forge World and get the conversion kit at 15 pounds... think that is well over $20 bucks US, but I am not sure of the currency exchange rates. So to get a new Vendetta, your looking at $80-85 for a single model.
Forge World kit is 43 Pounds for a complete (with Chimera) kit for the Hydra.
HWSs are $38.75 from GW, with single teams running for roughly $17.
Ebay and local specials (say Christmas or New Years) as well as shopping at other places besides GW (The War Store is pretty good) can get you better deals and get your stuff cheaper. Don't get me wrong, I /like/ Vendettas and Hydras. Having 2 of each in a list works really well and for the long haul will not hurt you to get them. But it also depends on the list. If your doing Mech Vets, adding in a Platoon makes no sense just to get a HWS. If your a power blob list, why not take the HWSs? It really comes down to you, your style, and what your using. Good thing the IG Codex is a good codex with several different types of lists and all of them can be competitive.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/11/26 21:43:57
Been playing 40k on and off since 89.
Armies...
Orks, Eldar, Lamentors, Pre-Heresy EC, CSM EC, and IG.
I disagree with that. While yes it is true to make HWSs more effective you should look to add things like a Lord Commissar, Kell, or Creed (if your going to want to issue 4 Orders a turn, you might as well get Creed), but even on their own with a base CCS within 12", you place them in cover for a 4+ cover save and they become more durable than vehicle mounted weapons for cheaper and can still be twin linked with Orders. They are also scoring so you do not have to hold anything back if your attacking. If you do spend 70pts on a Lord Commissar, they have Ld 10 for Orders, Morale, and pinning checks (if they are within 6" of him). The CCS has to see the same target, but that is a huge advantage of Orders to make the HWSs more efficient, specially against vehicles and MCs. Two Vendettas with scoring troops in them (Say a naked PCS for 30pts) are a total of 320pts, while a naked Lord Commissar with two LC HWSs are 280pts. It really starts to add up! Hydras to be effective are usally a single Squad of 2. That is 8 AC shots on a single target, while a ACHWS is 6 AC shots each. Two AC HWSs are 12 AC shots compaired to the 8 TLed AC shots of the Hydra, but the HWSs can also be twin linked dependant on the target. For the same points, I think I will choose the higher volume of shots over longer range and TLed vs everything. Math wise, I am gonna guess they are about equal anyways (without the orders) at 6 hits (of 12 at BS 3) and 6 hits (of 8 TLed BS 3 shots) average. Between the Hydra and the HWSs, I will take scoring and durability (in cover) to give the HWSs a edge.
Lets do a breakdown...
Vendetta - 130pts
Vendetta is fast, so can move 6" a turn and fire all of it's weapons, 12" and fire a single weapon, or go 'Flat Out' for 24" and fire none but get a 4+ cover save. All of it's weapons are twin linked, so that makes up for the BS 3. It can carry troops and is a vehicle making it immune to small arms fire. The Vehicle also has the Scout special ability.
The drawbacks are to make it scoring your adding 30+ points to it. It is AV 12 so really not /that/ difficult to take down. If it Outflanks the model is so big that if any weapons are hanging off of the table edge, they can not fire that weapon. If a skimmer is immobilised and it went 'flat out' within the last turn, it is wrecked. It is also AV 10 rear armor if it is assaulted, but by being fast you /should/ move 6" every round to get a 4+ to hit against it.
Hydra - 75pts
Two twin linked ACs with a farther than normal range (72")and a special sensor on it to ignore the cover save of 'flat out' skimmers. With an additional heavy bolter on the front hull.
Drawbacks are that it is still BS 3, AV 12 vehicle that can be taken out with 1 shot. The Hydra to be fully effective can't move so it is easy to take out in assault (AV 10 side and rear and auto hits if the vehicle doesn't move).
LCHWS - 105pts
Three 2 Wound units. Scoring as they are part of a Platoon. In cover should get a 4+ cover save, can be twin linked if issued the Order 'Bring it Down!. Cheaper than a Vendetta.
Outside of cover they are dead. A Str 6 + shot will insta kill a team. Leadership 7 on their own for Orders, Morale, and pinning checks. Can not be given Voxs or a sergeant, BS 3 without Orders means your only hitting 1.5 out of 3 shots.
ACHWS - 75pts
Three 2 Wound units. Scoring as they are part of a Platoon. In cover should get a 4+ cover save, can be twin linked if issued the Order 'Bring it Down!. Has one more AC than the Hydra.
Outside of cover they are dead. A Str 6 + shot will insta kill a team. Leadership 7 on their own for Orders, Morale, and pinning checks. Can not be given Voxs or a sergeant, BS 3 without Orders means your only hitting 3 out of 6 shots.
Really, each has their pros and cons. Price is a huge issue, as a Valk kit from GW is $66 bucks, and you have to either convert up your model to make it a Vendetta or go to Forge World and get the conversion kit at 15 pounds... think that is well over $20 bucks US, but I am not sure of the currency exchange rates. So to get a new Vendetta, your looking at $80-85 for a single model.
Forge World kit is 43 Pounds for a complete (with Chimera) kit for the Hydra.
HWSs are $38.75 from GW, with single teams running for roughly $17.
Ebay and local specials (say Christmas or New Years) as well as shopping at other places besides GW (The War Store is pretty good) can get you better deals and get your stuff cheaper. Don't get me wrong, I /like/ Vendettas and Hydras. Having 2 of each in a list works really well and for the long haul will not hurt you to get them. But it also depends on the list. If your doing Mech Vets, adding in a Platoon makes no sense just to get a HWS. If your a power blob list, why not take the HWSs? It really comes down to you, your style, and what your using. Good thing the IG Codex is a good codex with several different types of lists and all of them can be competitive.
I actually run Hydras, and they are worth every point you spend. i've had 2 main responses to them.
1- they ignore them until the damage is done. i tend to have higher priority targets for them to worry about.
A bunch of Vets in chimera, Manticore, Vendetta, Russes...
2- they treat them with too much respect. i've actually had an Eldar player not move 1 thing flat out the whole game
due to their ability.
and you can't say this 75 pts is better than that 75 pt investment. you're paying ALOT more than 75 pts to get that squad.
And on top of the platoon cost, you're wanting to start adding on a LC or Creed? it's only 1500 points. those two are way too
expensive. the 70 points min your spending on that LC could be another PIS with melta and power sword. or he'd be more than
a Hydra after you give him wargear. Creed's 90 points, well you get my point.
edit:
forgot this bit:
"Two Vendettas with scoring troops in them (Say a naked PCS for 30pts) are a total of 320pts, while a naked Lord Commissar with two LC HWSs are 280pts."
how are you suggesting the LC and 2 LCHWS get to some where they can score? walk? they'll be lucky to survive hiding. you move those Vendettas 6" and
you can still fire 3 TL lascannon shots. 12' gives you a single TL lascannon shot. you move those HWS and you get 6 lasgun shots(if you have 2 HWS) and whatever
the Lord Commisar has to shoot. The Vendettas win this hands down, imho.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/11/26 23:29:48
"But i'm more than just a little curious, how you're planning to go about making your amends, to the dead?" -The Noose-APC
"Little angel go away
Come again some other day
The devil has my ear today
I'll never hear a word you say" Weak and Powerless - APC
Orks, 
Eldar, 
Lamentors, 
Pre-Heresy EC, 
CSM EC, and 
IG. 
