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I have a complaint and a question about the Ungors from the beastmen boxset that I recently purchased. I just started collecting WHMF for the first time, but have been playing 40k for awhile. I have not as of yet played a game of fantasy.

First my complaint is I don't like the size of the Ungors and their smaller base. I like the look of the model, but despite being weaker than the beastigors and gors they could have made them relatively the same size but with just weaker stats. They look like they were put in a shrinking machine, or like they are pre-teen beastmen :s

Now my question is this : I made my Ungors have spears, because I figured that was best, but then I realized I should have gave them bows and arrows cuz they are the only shooting unit. So my question is why even have speared Ungors? Would it be better to just have only bow and arrow ungors and the replace spear ungors with Gors. This seems like the obvious thing. And also I guess ungors are basically just cannon fodder eh? Or what? K thanks.

Spear Ungor are for cheap rank bonus, they are perfectly fine for soaking damage and keeping a high CR to negate enemies steadfast while the Gors and Bestigors do the heavy lifting. As for bows, only the raiders have bows and the skirmish and max out at 10 per unit.

Looks like you should have done research before building. Spears are the sub-optimal choice with Ungors. Ungor Raiders, the ones with bows are pretty much taken in units of 5 and used for screening and redirecting you might get 2 shots to hit during the shooting phase and S3 your lucky to have one wound. Shield/Hand Weapon ungors are popular as a tarpit unit, 5 wide and as many deep as you can for steadfast, they will die but they will be cool. Spear ungors are really lacking, gor and bestigor are our infantry damage dealers, WS3 S3 is nothing even with an extra rank, but if you horde them out and are able to get off a mindrazor that can do some good damage. You can also stick a Doombull in the unit giving the unit frenzy I believe, but they lose primal fury. As far as the base side is concerned read the army book. Ungor are more human and therefore are given the 20mm base, proper beastmen the Gor and Bestigor are larger and given the 25mm base. Due to their likeness to humans ungor are looked down upon by the other beastmen and whereas a Gor and Bestigor are happy to slay a human, ungor resent their human side and torture their victims in a self-loathing way.

My advice to you is chop of the arms and give them bows once you have about 20 ungor raiders (4units of 5, 2 ambushing) and continue buying them I would personally do them as hand weapon/shield for tarpitting, but you may like them with spears for the doombull thing or for hording for mindrazor, I do think with spears they do look really cool.

Ungors are the smaller and weaker beastmen, hence the human base and statline. the fluff, IIRC, is that lots of Ungors are the offspring of humans that were corrupted in the womb. they are then left in the woods at birth and the beastmen come along and pick them up. the rest of the Ungors are any human/beastmen crosses or just the offspring of other Ungors.

as for equipment, go for the Bows. The Ambush ability can really annoy opponents and they can go hunt warmachines if needed.

Cool, ya I'll prolly pick up some more Ungors. I didn't realize that they had a human sized base. So the gors and beatigors have bigger bases than most normal man sized units then eh! Thats awesome. Thanks for the clarification guys!

Enjoy the Beastmen come over and stop by the Herdstone some time: http://z2.invisionfree.com/herdstone/index.php?

Jonesyboy12 wrote:Cool, ya I'll prolly pick up some more Ungors. I didn't realize that they had a human sized base. So the gors and beatigors have bigger bases than most normal man sized units then eh! Thats awesome. Thanks for the clarification guys!

yeah, they are on 25mm bases. Its the intermediary base size between Humans and 40mm monsterous infantry bases. Its the base size for Chaos Warriors and Saurus.

Go back a couple of editions and ungor were on 20mm bases.

I used to hate ranking up the mixed units.

Waaagh_Gonads wrote:Go back a couple of editions and ungor were on 20mm bases.

I used to hate ranking up the mixed units.

Currently 8th:
Ungor: 20mm
Gor/Bestigor: 25mm

Final

Someone more math-hammerly inclined want to do a comparison for me?

I want to see if it's worthwhile to add a Gorbull to a unit of ungors. By adding the Gorbull, they gain Frenzy, but lose access to the Primal Fury reroll. They also lose the ability to Parry, which means I'd want to give them spears. How many extra attacks would I need to offset the loss of Primal Fury rerolls?

Overall, Ungor aren't too much worse than Gors offensively WS4 Gors vs WS3 Ungors. In terms of attacks, the extra rank from spears would offset the extra AHW attack that Gors get (excepting on the charge, of course). Ungor would also be cheaper to Horde, and would have a smaller footprint (200mm vs. 250mm wide).

There are two reason I've been looking at combining a Gorbull (possibly BSB w/ Beast Banner) with Ungor:

1. The Gorbull will fit into the Ungor unit, being on a 40mmx40mm base; he would not fit into a Gor unit as they're on 25mm bases.

2. Ranked models with spears look so awesome!

Does any of that make sense? My brain isn't working quite right yet, as the caffeine hasn't fully hit.

Well, assuming a horde.

Frenzy is an extra attack and spears are an extra attack. effectivly speaking, you get +1 attack for the first rank(8 and then the Doombull's extra attack) and then another 10 from spears.

you basically get 46 attacks from a horde of ungors that have a doombull in them(not counting the doombull's attacks)


a horde of Gors would have 50 attacks with XHW. If you added the Doombull to them they would get 60 attacks with Frenzy(and the doombull wouldn't displace anyone cause hes on the side)


comparing the 2 units.

Gors will hit quite a few enemies on 3s while the ungors will basically be stuck hitting on 4s.

basically thats 40 hits each round vs 23 hits.


the Gors have almost twice as many hits. IDK points costs, but this should give you enough to make the call.

A Horde of Gors would only have 40 attacks before the Frenzy bonus, wouldn't they? 2/model for the first rank, 1/model for the second and third ranks?

hmmm, must have double counted something.

1 supporting attack per rank 3 ranks if horded with spears 4 ranks so:

Ungor Horde with primal fury attacking WS3, 40 attacks, 20 hit, primal fury rerolls so 30 hit.
Ungor Horde with Frenzy with Doombull in the footprint (44 attacks as 2 in front rank do not get 2 attacks and the 2 iun 2nd rank do not get supporting attacks) to against WS3 (no primal fury) 44 attacks 22 hit. But here the doombull is also going to throw out some attacks with the ASF sword those are likely rerolling with a 2+ armor save and ramhorm helmet thats even more attacks.

So overall primal fury is better then frenzy, but it is a test but with LD10 and a BSB in range it fails under 5% of the time and with frenzy if you lose combat you lose frenzy.

Also horded gors with xhw would have 40 attacks, Ungor with spears are 6pts and Gor with XHW are 8pts. Gor do get +1WS and +1T. Having said that Spear Horde of Ungor with Mindrazor or 1-2 Wyssans would be good with primal fury. Also remember since monstrous infantry and infantry are not the same the doombull would not get the 2+ look out sir roll.

Yeah, the more I thought about it there wasn't really a break even number. :-\ The only real benefit would be the cheaper cost, but in the end 2 points for +1WS/+1T and keeping the extra attack on the charge is worth losing the 6+ armor save.

Well, and the smaller footprint I suppose.

Ungor have their place they do not need to pay for shields so 5 points so really a great tarpitting unit 5 wide and 8+ deep with parry save. Also they do have primal fury so they do have a leg up against other units similar in stats.

streamdragon wrote:Someone more math-hammerly inclined want to do a comparison for me?

I want to see if it's worthwhile to add a Gorbull to a unit of ungors. By adding the Gorbull, they gain Frenzy, but lose access to the Primal Fury reroll. They also lose the ability to Parry, which means I'd want to give them spears. How many extra attacks would I need to offset the loss of Primal Fury rerolls?

Overall, Ungor aren't too much worse than Gors offensively WS4 Gors vs WS3 Ungors. In terms of attacks, the extra rank from spears would offset the extra AHW attack that Gors get (excepting on the charge, of course). Ungor would also be cheaper to Horde, and would have a smaller footprint (200mm vs. 250mm wide).

There are two reason I've been looking at combining a Gorbull (possibly BSB w/ Beast Banner) with Ungor:

1. The Gorbull will fit into the Ungor unit, being on a 40mmx40mm base; he would not fit into a Gor unit as they're on 25mm bases.

2. Ranked models with spears look so awesome!

Does any of that make sense? My brain isn't working quite right yet, as the caffeine hasn't fully hit.

http://math-hammer.appspot.com/

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