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Hey Dakkanauts, looking for some feedback on some list construction. I decided to get back to marines after a long hiatus and want to take a run at blood angels. Being a former IG player I really like mech builds (my current main army is Tyranids so it will be a nice clash of flavors). I typically play 2000 point games. The BA lists seem fairly cookie cutter yet effective, and I'm not looking to make friends with this list (that's what my nids are for ) Criticism welcome!

Librarian- 100 points

Librarian- 100 points

2 Sanguinary Priests- 100 points

5 Assault Marines- 175 points
power weapon, flamer, razorback w/las-plas

5 Assault Marines- 175 points
power weapon, flamer, razorback w/las-plas

5 Assault Marines- 165 points
meltagun, razorback w/las-plas

5 Assault Marines- 165 points
meltagun, razorback w/las-plas

5 Assault Marines- 165 points
meltagun, razorback w/las-plas

3 Baal Predators- 435 points
Heavy Bolter sponsons

3 Predators- 405 points
Autocannon, LC sponsons

=2000 points

delete

Right now you're spending 150! points on extra armour which is a waste.

You're also spending 30 points on power weapons on your priests, that should be avoiding base contact at all costs, which is also a waste.

With the 50 points you have to spare i'm sure you can find ALOT of better uses for these 230!! points you're wasting on upgrades.

Edited above list!

If you're giving your Baals anything, give them sponsons over Storm bolters.

Also, you don't need 10 searchlights. I fail to see where you'd feel the need to light up 10 separate targets in the same turn in DoW or even in games vs NF using Necrons. Go with just a few.

Dude you do not need power weapons on your melta units. You are busting tanks open and probably not charging after. I would also switch some of those meltas to flamers (which should have power weapons) as at the moment you lack anti horde, this list is geared to anti elite army i.e Space Marines.

Sorry if some of the items on the list seem like foolish choices, I'm more used to running horde type lists and this is my first dabbling into mech lists.

Adjusted the list above with flamers and sponsons. Had to drop a predator.

Dude, put 3 units with meltas and 2 with flamers & power weapon. You still need meltas for av14.

Updated, managed to add a predator back and drop one priest. 2000 on the dot.

I like the current version, but I think you are a bit weak against hordes. In my limited experience, the solution to them is Furiosos. I run the following list:

HQ: Librarian 100
EL: Furioso with BTs 125
EL: Furioso with BTs 125
TR: 5 Assault Marines, Meltagun, Power Fist, Las/Plas Razorback 190
TR: 5 Assault Marines, Meltagun, Power Fist, Las/Plas Razorback 190
TR: 5 Assault Marines, Meltagun, Power Fist, Las/Plas Razorback 190
TR: 5 Assault Marines, Flamer, Meltabombs Las/Plas Razorback 165
TR: 5 Assault Marines, Flamer, Meltabombs Las/Plas Razorback 165
FA: Baal Predator 115
FA: Baal Predator 115
FA: Baal Predator 115
HS: Auto/Las Predator 135
HS: Auto/Las Predator 135
HS: Auto/Las Predator 135

The Power Fist/Meltabomb list is the one thing I'm currently wrestling with. I plan to experiment with roughly what Mercer suggests in the future, giving PWs to the Flamer squads and taking a Priest, by dropping the PFs. I also plan to cut at least 1 Meltabomb for some Searchlights, given the new Necron codex.

Anyway, the Furiosos have, thus far at least, really helped the list deal with Hordes. I haven't played against Nids above 500 points, but AV13 means a Furioso is utter doom to anything short of a MC in CC. It takes 36 Genestealer attacks to glance it on average. I guess Ymgarls can get through AV13, but a max brood size of 10 means the chance still isn't great. Against Orks, the Furiosos can deal with the proverbial Mob of 20 Boyz, or even a squad of Nobz that's been whittled down by all the rest of the firepower. I see both of those matchups being a problem for your current list.

As for the advice to add Baal sponsons, I'm obviously unconvinced. I would include them at 2500, where slots are the real scarce commodity, not points, but I find Heavy Bolters to be incredibly underwhelming weapons. Sure, it sucks to have a weaponless tank, but AV13 and Fast means you can profitably ram a lot of stuff. I've been running sponsonless Baals for a while and I've never regretted leaving them out. On the other hand, I used to run Dakka Predators and I found that to be a mistake on many occasions. Heavy Bolters suck. The one exception would be if you face a lot of Dark Eldar players or I guess Ork lists with a lot of Trukks.

Mr E.-

I agree with you completely re: Heavy Bolters. I've always avoided taking them at all costs. The idea of a Baal with its TLAC blown off is disappointing, but ramming is still always an option. All of those sponsons really start to add up points wise when realistically they won't be maximized on.

I have wanted to run dreadnoughts in this list, just haven't found the points for them. I love dreadnoughts and have always had success with them. Not to mention BA dreads are some of the best dreads out there it seems.

I like mercer's idea of PW's with flamers and standalone meltaguns. PF's with assault squads, especially with a priest nearby, seems like a waste of I5. Double strength is nice but I don't see it being needed in a list with so much high strength, long range weapons.

I've never been sold on meltabombs.

Well, a Baal with HB sponsons is 145, so you're 15 point under as we speak. Dumping the sponsons gives 105, it comes down to whether you need the second Priest and second Librarian or not. I obviously think not, but it definitely is a cost and I wouldn't run a single Furioso.

Actually, I wonder if cutting an Assault Squad wouldn't be a solution. For me, that's the plan at 1850. It's has it's drawbacks, but I'm completely addicted to the Furiosos at this point.

OIF Knight wrote:

I like mercer's idea of PW's with flamers and standalone meltaguns. PF's with assault squads, especially with a priest nearby, seems like a waste of I5. Double strength is nice but I don't see it being needed in a list with so much high strength, long range weapons.

I've never been sold on meltabombs.

I've been running this setup for a over a year and the flamers and power weaps wreck in assault. Flamer say can kill about 4-5 none power armoured enemies on average, power armour say 1. I then charge with I5 S5 thanks to Priest and end up causing serious damage, in return I take little damage, except from power weaps. I've had my 5 Assault Marines with a Librarian w/ unleash rage (no Priest) wipe out a unit of 20 Boyz in assault prior to flaming them. Evil.

I agree with all these guys. Furioso Dreads with Blood Talons will destroy unarmoured hordes (Ignoring armour saves, rerolls to wound, extra attacks...) although running basic Baals is stupid. One weapon destroyed and you're faced with ramming and tank shocks. An extra set of sponsons will pound the enemy. Being heavily armed tanks, they should have extra weapons to fall back on as they will be a major focus. AT and AH looks good apart from that.

TR: 5 Assault Marines, Meltagun, Power Fist, Las/Plas Razorback 190
TR: 5 Assault Marines, Meltagun, Power Fist, Las/Plas Razorback 190
TR: 5 Assault Marines, Meltagun, Power Fist, Las/Plas Razorback 190
TR: 5 Assault Marines, Flamer, Meltabombs Las/Plas Razorback 165
TR: 5 Assault Marines, Flamer, Meltabombs Las/Plas Razorback 165

Would running only 4 squads as opposed to 5 squads leave a list like this too low on troops?

mercer wrote:

OIF Knight wrote:

I like mercer's idea of PW's with flamers and standalone meltaguns. PF's with assault squads, especially with a priest nearby, seems like a waste of I5. Double strength is nice but I don't see it being needed in a list with so much high strength, long range weapons.

I've never been sold on meltabombs.

I've been running this setup for a over a year and the flamers and power weaps wreck in assault. Flamer say can kill about 4-5 none power armoured enemies on average, power armour say 1. I then charge with I5 S5 thanks to Priest and end up causing serious damage, in return I take little damage, except from power weaps. I've had my 5 Assault Marines with a Librarian w/ unleash rage (no Priest) wipe out a unit of 20 Boyz in assault prior to flaming them. Evil.

Yeah I'm a big fan of this too. I find that the meltas/PFs work well in DoA, but flamers/PWs seem to fit better in Mech.

As a sidenote, what's the reasoning for getting Baals over Vindis for most of you guys?

As a sidenote, what's the reasoning for getting Baals over Vindis for most of you guys?

Baals don't scatter and are twin linked AC's...a rarity which we should be glad we have access to.

Rending is gnarly, makes even AV13 cower in fear and on a good roll can really threaten AV14.

Baals are also FA. Vindi's are heavy. In that case, predators are better choices for your heavies. preds + baals = good

Predators also come in 10 points cheaper than a vindi, assuming you get autocannon + LC sponsons...typically the most popular build on a predator.

Yeah, Baals are heavy too, just like Vindis (also AV13 front). Baal Preds are the FA.

Also the Autocannon doesn't rend?

Also the Autocannon doesn't rend?

Autocannons do not rend, but offer good AV11 pen possibility with BS4. Assault Cannons rend

OIF Knight wrote:

Also the Autocannon doesn't rend?

Autocannons do not rend, but offer good AV11 pen possibility with BS4. Assault Cannons rend

Maybe we're misunderstanding each other. You have Baals with autocannons, autocannons do not rend. I'm not sure where you're getting the assault cannons from?

Edit: On the Baals, I'm an idiot.

Lol correct, Baals come with TL assault cannons. Predators come with Autocannons.

I re-read my post several times thinking I mistyped something!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Librarian- 100 points

2 Sanguinary Priests- 100 points

2 Furioso- 280 points
extra armor, blood talons

5 Assault Marines- 175 points
power weapon, flamer, razorback w/las-plas

5 Assault Marines- 175 points
power weapon, flamer, razorback w/las-plas

5 Assault Marines- 165 points
meltagun, razorback w/las-plas

5 Assault Marines- 165 points
meltagun, razorback w/las-plas

3 Baal Predators- 435 points
Heavy Bolter sponsons

3 Predators- 405 points
Autocannon, LC sponsons

=2000 points

Vindi's offer a real scare factor in three's. You can wipe out or at least force a morale check on MEQ's. I feel they would offer more variety then AC/LC Preds. Its worth it especially now they are Fast. Also I didn't notice what Psychic powers you took.

Also I didn't notice what Psychic powers you took.

Probably would run Shield + Unleash Rage; although the exact choice would be dependent on what army I am going up against

phantommaster wrote:Vindi's offer a real scare factor in three's. You can wipe out or at least force a morale check on MEQ's. I feel they would offer more variety then AC/LC Preds. Its worth it especially now they are Fast. Also I didn't notice what Psychic powers you took.

+1. My Vindicators also end up taking fire power, which is great because my weaker Razorbacks don't take the pain. With Preds you've got lascannons, guess what your Razorbacks have lascannons so it doesn't matter what you take out first.

On the subject of Baals, I think they are naff. As everyone said the assault cannon on it's own is a risk, but that is the same risk as any other single weapon vehicle i.e Vindicator. You can add heavy bolters, but they are expensive and not that good. With the heavy bolters you will hit about 4 shots, wound with 3 and if the enemy unit has cover they will save 1.5, you've just killed 1-2 Orks out of a mob of 20, well done. I honestly don't think the Baal is worth it. Rending on the assault cannon isn't that scary as it's a possibility, not certainty.

Well for a mech army list, as BA, I would think Baals would be nearly auto include. The scout move alone, combined with games you go first, would put incredible first turn pressure on any opponent. They'll have 3 AV13 twin linked AC's in their grill, and potentially a 1-2 dead transports. The meta that adds to a game is phenomenal. Personally, I get agita with an opponent does something like that to me!

As far as vindi's vs. preds goes, I do like vindi's, I used 2 at time all the time when I played vanilla marines, and yes they worked with great success.

In all honesty I can lean either way with vindi's or preds. Vindi's do add more flexibility since they can reliably deal with hordes/MEQ/high AV (BS4 helps with the scatter).

I suppose I just need to be sold on Vindi's. Seems people who use them really stick by them- please convince me!!!

I think another reason people take baals is for the AV13 saturation. And with the new Necron release, seeing how good the scarabs are, running a flamestorm cannon is even more plausible. Now they are good against a handful of lists. Any marine army, DE, Necrons, and Orks. So it is ok to overlook the TL Assault Cannon, but lets reconsider a scouting flamestorm cannon.

I have to agree with the above lc preds go phew and vindis go boom

Vindis take more punishment and preds sit back and watch the fire works

But if there's one up I've had with vindis over preds is that they're just that more useful at anti-horde but can still threaten av while the preds just target tanks... So do razors meh

If your adding vindis then don't add furiosos

If your taking preds your solely reling on your furiosos to anti horde

It really depends what you want your heavy slots to do

Say you take a couple preists now you have two slots for furiosos but have three slots for your preds... I guess you can take both if really stripped everything to the essentials but even then why

I lean towards vindis but that doesnt mean they haven't screwed me on the scatter but I rather take the crack shot plate then a slow dread slugging behind, soaking up fire and maybe not even see the fight

If I had to say anything else it would be: the dex isn't the greatest when it comes to horde period

Updated list. Dropped the Furiosos and added another priest, another librarian and sponsons for the baals. The flamers and especially baals will handle well with hordes, not to mention the killy assault squads. AT is handled fairly obviously. Thanks for the feedback and looking forward to more!

HQ: Librarian- 100 points
Shield, Unleash Rage
HQ: Librarian- 100 points
Shield, Unleash Rage

EL: 2 Sanguinary Priest- 100 points

TR: 5 Assault Marines- 175 points
power weapon, flamer, razorback w/las-plas
TR: 5 Assault Marines- 175 points
power weapon, flamer, razorback w/las-plas
TR: 5 Assault Marines- 175 points
power weapon, flamer, razorback w/las-plas
TR: 5 Assault Marines- 165 points
meltagun, razorback w/las-plas
TR: 5 Assault Marines- 165 points
meltagun, razorback w/las-plas

FA: 1 Baal Predator- 145 points
Heavy Bolters
FA: 1 Baal Predator- 145 points
Heavy Bolters
FA: 1 Baal Predator- 145 points
Heavy Bolters

HS: 1 Predator- 135 points
Autocannon, LC sponsons
HS: 1 Predator- 135 points
Autocannon, LC sponsons
HS: 1 Predator- 135 points
Autocannon, LC sponsons

i find it quiet ironic now you have no horde control

baals with HB are a joke towards horde. theyre only there for de players and soak up weapon dmg results

take flamestorm cannnons if you want them for horde otheriwse theyre there to rend anything else

assualt squads w/ 5 bodies even with a pw and flamer do way less then your expecting

movie marines yes not so much tabletop

otherwise drop a asm squad for furiosos or switch the preds for vindicators

if you decide to drop the asm then try to squeeze two furiosos instead of just one

Librarian Termi w/ Storm Shield, Wings, Sword, - 145

3 Baals w/ Heavy Bolter Sponsons - 435

3 Furios w/ Blood Talons, Drop Pod - 480

4 Assualt Marines x5 w/ Melta, Power Fist, Razor Back, TLLC, - 570

Vindi w/ Seige Shield, - 155

That leaves 25 points to taste.

Any comments?