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So this is something that I would like to work on over the next few days and would love any input from some more knowledgable posters. What I'm planning to do is see past the 1 trick ponies that Necrons have available and find some of the options that are solidly competitive and give (and receive) some info on their potential uses. Some are obvious, some less so. Regardless lets try to see what Necrons have at their disposal to build competitive lists.

I would also like to make it clear I am only going to be looking at solid options for what I consider competitive builds. Lists will be given later on (and I hope others can provide examples too). I will probably end up having to put this into 2 sections since I see a big split between our shooting and assault...Pure shooting currently looks like it's a lot cheaper so you get more bodies and can just throw tar-pits in the way, but our dedicated assault units get T5 and re-animation protocols which when combined with a res-orb makes them astoundingly resilient. Which is the more effective? Only time will tell.

CRYPTEKS
Something I have picked up on (and I'm sure it's not just me) is Crypteks with Harbinger of Destruction. I see these guys as our long fangs (only more resilient, more mobility and more expensive). For 195pts you can get 5 dudes with a 36" S8 AP2 assault weapon and a player turn of Night Fight thrown in for good measure. Sure you need an Overlord to get these guys into play and they are expensive, but they will perform. You can even throw in a Lord (or Overlord) with a res orb to keep these guys reliably getting back up. The other Harbingers really need some playtesting to see how effective they are but it looks like they are more squad leaders with their variable abilities than a hardcore shooty unit. Also remember that S8 is the magic number for getting through multi-wound T4 models...Warriors, Paladins, Nobz etc.

A quick note on the Solar Pulse. Currently in 5th Night Fighting is a great boon, how that will work in 6th is anybodies guess though. Adding this into the equation (for 5th) you can see how it will allow the Crypteks to remove a lot of threats quickly without fear of retaliation for 2 turns in most cases. Long Fangs with AP3 launchers...not there any more. Lances from Ravagers...what Ravager?

SCARAB SWARMS
Everyone seems to have pounced on these and it's easy to see why. Entropic Strike with beast movement. Absolutely dirty. In lower points games I foresee many lists with at least 2 units and in larger points games maybe even a third unit or even...

WRAITHS
With wound allocation shenanigans (to a degree) and with a 3+ invulnerable I see these guys as dirty fighters. Sure they can lose numbers quickly to S8+, but in a mechanized environment they will be drawing fire that would otherwise go into AV13 vehicles, allowing a reprieve and give you an advantage in a shooting war. Their speed is a huge factor in this and though slower than the previous edition Codex Jump infantry are nothing to sneeze at. Now they may not go toe-to toe with TH/SS termies, but then that shouldn't be their job and you have the mobility to avoid them. Crons have a distinct advantage with numbers of shots if you max out your tesla (which I know I will be doing). And these guys are immune to JotWW.

TRIARCH STALKERS
These bad boys look like fun. These guys have access to an Assault 2 multi-melta which can also be turned into a heavy flamer against infantry. Not only that but they force multiply the rest of your army by twin linking any fire-power that gets directed against the same target. Trying to slag a vehicle but merely knocked a weapon off...try a twin-linked Tachyon Arrow or 2. Ork boyz rushing you. Have a flamer template and enjoy the twin linked tesla coming right after to really maximize those 6's.
And once the enemy looks like they are too close to comfort you can just charge these guys in. An AV13 walker is a tough nut to crack, even with a power-fist.

ANNIHILATION BARGES
For heavy support choices we are rather spoilt, but the one I'm really intrigued by is this. Less than 100pts points for an AV13 platform. Sure it's not fast, has medium range and is still vulnerable to glances due to being open topped, but if you want to really spam those AV13 vehicles without taking a heavy toll on your points this is the route I would take. Great against infantry, ok against light AV. And to be honest the way I see it we have access to plenty of anti-tank elsewhere in our FOC anyway. Anti-infantry is where Necrons will probably struggle. Adding in a lot more cheap Tesla is a great way to mitigate this.

NECRON WARRIORS
So these are the staple of many a list. We get 2 Troops choices and this is the cheaper one so I forsee a lot of players just bringing out 20 of these with a Phaeron attached. It's a pretty solid idea with having that many mobile gauss shots a turn. Throw in a Ghost ark or 2 and you also get the ability to regenerate failed RP models. The drawback...expensive as hell and very vulnerable to close combat and morale reducing abilities.

IMMORTALS
The elite core of a Necron army. Personally I'm a huge fan of these guys with Tesla. First off they require very little in the way of supporting units to be effective, and secondly they are more survivable with a slightly better armour save than your run-of-the-mill Necron warrior. Sure they pack less of a punch but are also less expensive. Having a list that is not really reliant on Troops is a bit of a boon in my opinion. Being less of a threat they get targeted less, and keeping their cost down allows you to fill out your FOC with the good stuff. Others may see it differently but that's me.



Right this is just the start but I will be adding more as I get the time and arranging it in a nice, neat order. Comments welcome.

Lukus83 wrote:For 195pts you can get 5 dudes with a 36" S8 AP2 assault weapon and a player turn of Night Fight thrown in for good measure.

No.

Don't do it.

Just...don't.

The crypteks are where fully half of our special rules come from. Taking 5 of them *just* for a single staff item they can get is a complete waste. If you want AT fire you should be looking at scarabs, voidblade praetorians, warscythe lychguard, warscyth overlord w/ command barge, death rays, triarch stalkers w/ TLd heavy guass cannons, and good old-fashoned heavy destroyers.

All will do more for your money than a squad of crypteks. Especially when compared to what else you could be doing with said crypteks if you would just equip them with stuff and pass them around to your squads.

Lukus83 wrote:
CRYPTEKS
Something I have picked up on (and I'm sure it's not just me) is Crypteks with Harbinger of Destruction. I see these guys as our long fangs (only more resilient, more mobility and more expensive). For 195pts you can get 5 dudes with a 36" S8 AP2 assault weapon and a player turn of Night Fight thrown in for good measure.

My preference is four squads of 5 Necron Warriors, each with one Cryptek with Harbinger of Destruction. Let's you split up fire, or concentrate as you like. Good units to stick in cover and protect objectives too.

Mez

There's several people, me included, that have posted the math for wraiths. Tl;dr: Equal points, a squad of wraiths will own THSS Termies, if given the charge. Wraiths are pretty much the best assault unit you can field with the necron codex, not counting 500+ point deathstars. S6 + Rending + 4 attacks on the charge means you've got good anti-vehicle abilities as well, and jump infantry will get you where you need to be.

On another note for Crypteks: The voltaic staff is incredibly effective. It's a more powerful haywire blaster. I used a squad of 5 all with staffs, with vargard obryn. They teleported around, killing tanks left, right and center.

woodbok wrote:On another note for Crypteks: The voltaic staff is incredibly effective. It's a more powerful haywire blaster. I used a squad of 5 all with staffs, with vargard obryn. They teleported around, killing tanks left, right and center.

I am a big fan of the voltaic staff and I use it in my list, the ability to glance on a 2+ provides alot of synergy with our cc units.

Arandmoor wrote:

Lukus83 wrote:For 195pts you can get 5 dudes with a 36" S8 AP2 assault weapon and a player turn of Night Fight thrown in for good measure.

No.

Don't do it.

Just...don't.

The crypteks are where fully half of our special rules come from. Taking 5 of them *just* for a single staff item they can get is a complete waste. If you want AT fire you should be looking at scarabs, voidblade praetorians, warscythe lychguard, warscyth overlord w/ command barge, death rays, triarch stalkers w/ TLd heavy guass cannons, and good old-fashoned heavy destroyers.

All will do more for your money than a squad of crypteks. Especially when compared to what else you could be doing with said crypteks if you would just equip them with stuff and pass them around to your squads.

We may get a lot of special rules from our Crypteks, but how many of them are really required at the competitive level? Having access to the Eldritch Lance is completely worth 35 points a pop as far as I'm concerned. Going a bit deeper if you take a look at Lychguard...it's 200pts for a unit of 5, more if you want to give them a transport. Which is more cost efficient? Sure Lychguard are pretty nasty in cc, but the aim of Necrons should be (IMO) to reduce combats where you are outmatched by shooting down the threat, tarpitting and screening.

Now I'm not saying that you should just spam Crypteks. A balance must be found between them and the other slots. In my 1850 list I fully intend to run 5 Crypteks through 2 different Royal Courts. 2 will be spread throughout squads, the other 3 will provide some long distance damage dealing. At the same time I will have 13 Scarab bases, 2 Triarch Stalkers and 2 Lords on CC barges with Tachyon Arrows. This also doesn't include my anti-infantry units...

With regards to other options I saw the Voltaic Staff and was not impressed. 12" range. A competent general will be screening effectively and not allow those haywire hits in and leaves you vulnerable to counter-assault. Sure you can use the Obyrons veil to get out of combat...but you have to survive a round first. I guess in a cc orientated list it could work, but my own approach will be to shoot the hell out of everything on the table. Not saying I'm right, just the way I see the new codex. Firepower is cheaper than assault potential.

Regarding the Wraiths I hadn't actually done the math. But you can see straight away that they are a competitive unit. 2 wounds, S6 rending, Jump infantry with a 3++ save. I can see these getting used a lot regardless of list design, though I feel (and it's just a feeling until more games get played) that they will synergize better with mech lists since they will be drawing S8+ weapons.

Small update to OP.

Arandmoor wrote:

Lukus83 wrote:For 195pts you can get 5 dudes with a 36" S8 AP2 assault weapon and a player turn of Night Fight thrown in for good measure.

No.

Don't do it.

Just...don't.

The crypteks are where fully half of our special rules come from. Taking 5 of them *just* for a single staff item they can get is a complete waste. If you want AT fire you should be looking at scarabs, voidblade praetorians, warscythe lychguard, warscyth overlord w/ command barge, death rays, triarch stalkers w/ TLd heavy guass cannons, and good old-fashoned heavy destroyers.

All will do more for your money than a squad of crypteks. Especially when compared to what else you could be doing with said crypteks if you would just equip them with stuff and pass them around to your squads.

The other cryptek stuff is admittedly cool, but most of the time sticking 2 S8 AP2 36" assault weapons in AV13 open-topped vehicles is probably a better use of crypteks. Half of what you mentioned is extremely ineffective or inefficient. Voidblade praetorians (40 points for something that will never get close to a vehicle)? warscythe lychguard for vehicle hunting (most vehicles will easily outmaneuver them, and they can't assault out of our vehicles)? Heavy destroyers (+25 pts for +1 S and slightly better effective range, but at the cost of being much easier to pick off)? Triarch stalkers are extremely expensive for their effectiveness.

woodbok wrote:On another note for Crypteks: The voltaic staff is incredibly effective. It's a more powerful haywire blaster. I used a squad of 5 all with staffs, with vargard obryn. They teleported around, killing tanks left, right and center.

Tremorstaves and Seismic Crucible. They fit SUPER well into a unit of 9-10 warriors/immortals. Is a unit even LOOKING like it wants to assault your units? 36" out I hit you with Tremorstave -- small chance I'll take out some guys. However, next turn you are moving in difficult terrain. Running C'tan? Now you are moving in dangerous terrain. This can really cause your enemies some headaches.

If a unit is actually positioned for attack against you. Nominate them during assault. I bet your opponent forgets that you even have this and positions himself 6" out, shoots your stuff, then forgets he now assaults up to 3" less. Oops.

Not game-breaking, but this is just annoying stuff that can really thow your opponent's game off if they ever value moving their units or attacking you in close combat. Both of which I hear some armies do now and then.

Ostrakon wrote:
The other cryptek stuff is admittedly cool, but most of the time sticking 2 S8 AP2 36" assault weapons in AV13 open-topped vehicles is probably a better use of crypteks. Half of what you mentioned is extremely ineffective or inefficient. Voidblade praetorians (40 points for something that will never get close to a vehicle)? warscythe lychguard for vehicle hunting (most vehicles will easily outmaneuver them, and they can't assault out of our vehicles)? Heavy destroyers (+25 pts for +1 S and slightly better effective range, but at the cost of being much easier to pick off)? Triarch stalkers are extremely expensive for their effectiveness.

Effectiveness comes at a cost. It's an expensive model, sure, but what else out there is a walker with a dual mode double tap melta that grants twin linked to the entire army on the unit/model it hits? I'm sorry, but to me that is worth the points cost.

Praetorians can get near vehicles. Either via deep strike or the 13-18" movement they get. Lychguard with warscythes aren't meant to be vehicle hunters.

Kevin949 wrote:

Ostrakon wrote:
The other cryptek stuff is admittedly cool, but most of the time sticking 2 S8 AP2 36" assault weapons in AV13 open-topped vehicles is probably a better use of crypteks. Half of what you mentioned is extremely ineffective or inefficient. Voidblade praetorians (40 points for something that will never get close to a vehicle)? warscythe lychguard for vehicle hunting (most vehicles will easily outmaneuver them, and they can't assault out of our vehicles)? Heavy destroyers (+25 pts for +1 S and slightly better effective range, but at the cost of being much easier to pick off)? Triarch stalkers are extremely expensive for their effectiveness.

Effectiveness comes at a cost. It's an expensive model, sure, but what else out there is a walker with a dual mode double tap melta that grants twin linked to the entire army on the unit/model it hits? I'm sorry, but to me that is worth the points cost.

Praetorians can get near vehicles. Either via deep strike or the 13-18" movement they get. Lychguard with warscythes aren't meant to be vehicle hunters.

I can have 4 S8 shots at greater range for the cost of a single stalker. I wouldn't take it strictly because I needed AT, as that would be a demonstrably poor choice if I didn't already have filled courts. It's there to make tesla weapons absolutely absurd.

Also, since Praetors aren't going to be assaulting the turn they come in, they are going to be simply shot to oblivion when it comes down. T5 3+ isn't too hard to take out, especially since they can't get an invuln save.

Ostrakon wrote:

Kevin949 wrote:

Ostrakon wrote:
The other cryptek stuff is admittedly cool, but most of the time sticking 2 S8 AP2 36" assault weapons in AV13 open-topped vehicles is probably a better use of crypteks. Half of what you mentioned is extremely ineffective or inefficient. Voidblade praetorians (40 points for something that will never get close to a vehicle)? warscythe lychguard for vehicle hunting (most vehicles will easily outmaneuver them, and they can't assault out of our vehicles)? Heavy destroyers (+25 pts for +1 S and slightly better effective range, but at the cost of being much easier to pick off)? Triarch stalkers are extremely expensive for their effectiveness.

Effectiveness comes at a cost. It's an expensive model, sure, but what else out there is a walker with a dual mode double tap melta that grants twin linked to the entire army on the unit/model it hits? I'm sorry, but to me that is worth the points cost.

Praetorians can get near vehicles. Either via deep strike or the 13-18" movement they get. Lychguard with warscythes aren't meant to be vehicle hunters.

I can have 4 S8 shots at greater range for the cost of a single stalker. I wouldn't take it strictly because I needed AT, as that would be a demonstrably poor choice if I didn't already have filled courts. It's there to make tesla weapons absolutely absurd.

Also, since Praetors aren't going to be assaulting the turn they come in, they are going to be simply shot to oblivion when it comes down. T5 3+ isn't too hard to take out, especially since they can't get an invuln save.

But you're not taking into account everything that "won't" be on the board if you DS praetorians. They're not a powerhouse unit, they're a cleanup crew.

Plus, you're thinking in terms of just straight up firepower and not tactical advantages. Those 4 str 8 shots do you no good if 1/2 or more of them miss, and you're bound to fail wounds with them now and again for one reason or another.

Besides which, praetorians can get entropic strike and rending, on top of being hands down more durable than scarabs. Hell...don't DS them. Start them on the board, run them up a flank with a destroyer lord packing a rez orb and a warscythe, and use them to kill vehicles that get immobilized by your tremorstaves, Orikan the Diviner, gauss glancing, triarch stalkers, etc.

Or even just assault with them. Six of them with a d-lord stand a pretty good chance at doing some very not-nice things to anything short of a land raider that moved 12" in the previous turn.

You think scarabs are mean? Run some numbers on them and realize they get the 4-5+ RP roll that the scarabs don't on top of 2 points of S and rending with their alternate weapon setup. They're also not T3, and don't get rocked by templates short of a LR Redeemer's side sponson or a battle cannon.

Oh...they're also JI. So, their assault range is 1d6" shy of a scarab's. They are very capable of catching and killing most transports (most of the transports they can't run down are vulnerable to things like bolters anyway so just go gung-ho with your warriors and immortals).

6 Triarch Praetorians w/ voidblades and particle casters vs. a LR that moved 6" in the previous turn (they wanted to shoot their guns, and not even a squad of 10 scarabs will take out a LR that moved 12" in one assault on average. They have to get lucky)...

Shooting phase: nothing happens. Their S6 gun can't hurt AV 14
Assault phase: 18 attacks hitting on 4+
9 hits. Entropic Strike takes effect on 4+
4 points of armor ripped off the LR (now AV 10)
Out of the 9 hits we're going to average 1.5 rending hits. With S5, we'll also score 1.5 glancing hits on average.
A rending hit will score a minimum result of (6 + 1 + 5) 12, so any hits that rend will, on average, score a penetrating hit on the LR.

If you roll even a little bit above average, 6 praetorians will spell big trouble for any land raider that moves at less than cruising speed.

Like scarabs, praetorians with void blades will rip any immobilized vehicle apart.

Less worst case, vs. a rhino...

Against a rhino or razorback a praetorian can score a pen on a 6 without ES.
Add ES and if the transport moves at cruising speed they'll lose 1-2 armor and eat 1/2 rending attacks on average. Against AV 8, a S5 model will pen on a 4+. Chances are they're going to pen at least once, and they'll glance or pen with a second.

I think one of the biggest benefits Void Blade / Caster Praetorians have going for them is simply that people are likely going to shoot at them last. With all the internet vibe and PRO-SCARAB (omg so good!) stuff going on, people might ignore them long enough to have them do something effective. However, if a unit gets ignored, it needs to do something substantial to make your opponent "not right" in doing so. Obviously if they don't do a whole lot they are a waste, right?

I may proxy some this coming weekend to see if I can do something effective - esp if I play against any kind of armor.

So I thought the idea of the Crypteks as a unit of devastators/long fangs/whatever heavy unit you want to think of and kind of disregarded it. After seeing the OP I thought I'd see what you could do with them. So here's what I came up with: 3x Crypteks-Lance, 1x Cryptek-Lance+Solar Pulse, 1x Cryptek-Tremorstave and Harp of Dissonance. Pretty damn good with 4x S8 shots and the ability to reduce AV before they roll to penetrate. If you throw a Stalker into the army with a TL heavy gauss cannon then you can pretty much count on all of that being twin-linked if the stalker doesn't take it out first. With the right combo (which I'll be posting under army lists so feel free to comment ) you could potentially wreck entire mech armies before they are able to do anything and then shut the lights off on them. Seems kinda neat to me.

If you don't have a Chronometron in your Tekastator squad, it's wrong.

425 points for a WS/RO destroyer lord and 6x VB praetorians in one unit

or

420 points for one unit of 10x scarabs and two units of 9x scarabs

I think in most cases I'm gonna have to go with the scarabs.