Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

I have been playing Khorne for a long time, never change, and getting bored of charging forward all the time. So, for the first time I would like to try a mix army, I know fluff-wise it's horrible, but it's all good for me. What I'm looking for is a feedback of how this army will do in a competitive environment, especially against the new 5th edt Necrons.

HQ

Daemon Prince, MoS, Wing, LoS
Daemon Prince, MoS, Wing, LoS

TROOP

8 Khorne Berserker, Champion, PF Rhino, EA, Havoc Launcher
8 Khorne Berserker, Champion, PF Rhino, EA, Havoc Launcher
7 Plague Marine, Champion, PF, 2 plasma Rhino, EA, Havoc Launcher

HEAVY

3 Obliterator
3 Obliterator
Defiler, ECCW, Reaper Auto Cannon

Total: 1750

I know the double lash is such a cliche and some people may think it is obsolete in the mech environment, but I want to try at least once. I usually play at 1500 and this is the first time I go up to 1750. I started to think that 3 troop choice is too little for 1750 game ??? I know extra armors and havoc launcher on Rhinos are excessive, but I cant think of anything to use the remaining point on... What do you guys think?? constructive feedback please....

Lash is better on a Sorcerer as can hide within a unit. Princes are best with warptime to smash face in. I would only consider really running Princes with a Greater Daemon as this gives more monstrous creature saturation.

Berzerker Rhinos do not need havoc launchers, you are moving 12" all the time to get into combat.

Plague Marines don't need to be in a unit of 7 or have a power fist. You only need 5 Plague Marines to get double specials so that's all you need and the power fist is silly expensive.

That single Defielr will be picked on, plus it's not that good. I would replace it for more Obliterators.

What he said ^^

If you really want to use Defilers, use three, with three Dread and two Deamon Princes (and a Greater Daemon) and just try and stomp on things.
Its a different style list, something that no other army can do quite the same, 6 walkers and 3 MCs But its fragile.

If you want competitive, which is where your headed with this style.
Two sorcerers with Lash.
Keep your transports cheap, only upgrade I might bother with is a combi-weapon if I have the points right.
Bezerkers are nice, but you might want to think about tactics with them when using Lash and Oblits, if you just go out looking to kill things, the Zerkers are going to get isolated in most cases and not be very successful. But use them correctly and you have quite a powerful CC punch on top of decent ranged shooting.

The thing about the defiler is that it goes with the csm dex rule of pairs. One isn't enough and will get nabbed while three is a little much, two is the right number if you want to run them.

The only havoc launcher in ur army should be on a plauge marines rhino since with only 3 troops and 2 of those are dedicated cc assualt troops, ur going to need something to sit on the obj. Since the only thing its gonna be doing is sitting still, go ahead and give it a launcher. Extra armour is a must for the zerkers rhino as it will keep it moving.

Thank you for all the inputs, I have taken all the advice into account and came up with this list, Is this more like it?

HQ

Daemon Prince, MoS, Wing, LoS
Daemon Prince, MoS, Wing, LoS

TROOP

8 Khorne Berserker, Champion, PF in Rhino, Daemonic Possession
8 Khorne Berserker, Champion, PF in Rhino, Daemonic Possession
5 Plague Marine, 2 plasma in Rhino, Havoc Launcher
5 Plague Marine, 2 plasma in Rhino, Havoc Launcher

HEAVY

3 Obliterator
2 Obliterator
2 Obliterator

Total: 1750

After I did some reading on lash, I decided to keep the daemon princes due to some of their advantages over sorcerer. Does this look better than the first list?

Whilst this is a good list, whats the plan for Dark Eldar, or regular Eldar flying circus for that matter?

My 50 cents, I would have this:

HQ

Daemon Prince, MoS, Wing, LoS
Daemon Prince, MoS, Wing, LoS
Greater Daemon

TROOP

8 Khorne Berserker, Champion in Rhino, extra armour
8 Khorne Berserker, Champion, PF in Rhino, extra armour, combi-melta
5 Plague Marine, 2 plasma in Rhino, Havoc Launcher
5 Plague Marine, 2 flamer in Rhino, Havoc Launcher

HEAVY

Havoc Squad with 4 x autocannons, Icon of Chaos Glory
2 Obliterator
2 Obliterator

Total: 1745

Pretty much same as your list, but dropped the 3 obilt squad for a Greater Daemon and the autocannon havocs. The GD means one of your zerker champs doesn't have a fist, but this will bring your assault element to 15 zerkers, 2 DP's and a GD = kickass. A combi-melta on one of your zerkers rhino for shots of opportunity should the rhino survive to your opponents lines.

The autocannon havocs will give you a little bit more leverage against Eldar and Dark Eldar and pretty much any transport heavy list tbh, which is pretty much any army these days. You'd still have the 4 oblits, but i'd use them for taking out infantry with their plasma cannons rather than relying on them to take out transports with their lascannons, which is a bit cack.

Gave one of the plague marine squads 2 xflamers to give you a little bit more crowd control against orks/nids/wyches, as they could still be a problem for your plague marines if they get into combat

Look like a solid list but I'm wondering if 4 oblits are enough to drive the lash to it's fullest potential? I heard people field a lot of oblits to make use of their plasma cannon. Otherwise then would your list work better with Nurgle princes with warp time?

ok so people go on about the more oblits the better for the use of lash.

But there is two elements to lash: firstly, you pull infantry nasties out of cover and blast template the crap out them ( In which case i actually don't think you were far wrong with the battlecannon defiler by the way). But to do this you need to de-mech stuff first otherwise the oblits are wasted really. I know they have lascannons but if you roll like me you'll wish you had more dice to roll to damage, al be it slightly weaker - and the squad of autocannon havocs gives you good ability for taking out Rhino & equivalents, so you can actually Plasma cannon them to death.

Secondly though, and in my opinion the far more reliably useful tactic is lashing stuff towards combat nasties - that with 3 big scary daemons and two squads of zerkers you'lll have in abundance.

At the end of the day you can do both with your original list, but with the extra combat-beast MC (and a Greater Daemon is a combat beast- better than lash princes so gives you a good back up) and the autocannons gives you a little flexibility.

I won best CSM at the throne of skulls tournament in October by using possessed (don't worry, I wont reccomend them to you, although they totally kicked ass!) and double lash princes to get a first turn charge and de-meching stuff with the auto-havocs, whilst bringing chosen with a neaked champ up to my opponents' lines to drop off my GD, and battlecannoning stuff with my defiler.

Fair enough...sounds reasonable to me. I guess I will try both list to see the outcome. Thank you for your advice by the way, helps me think a lot. May I ask what list did you use to win that tournament and how many point?

I didn't win the whole tournament. The Throne of Skulls is the big UK GW run tournament. There were 180+ players, I came 8th overall and won best CSM player. The thing is with my list - I always build armies to a theme and Slaanesh is my favorite Chaos god, so its an all slaanesh force with 6 x 6 man squads and no oblits, so dunno if you'll like it

HQ
DP, Wings, Lash of Submission, MoS -155pts
DP, Wings, Lash of Submission, MoS -155pts
Greater Daemon 100pts

Troops
Noise Marines x6, blastmaster, x4 sonic blasters -180pts
Noise Marines x6, champ, doom siren, power sword -165 pts
Noise Marines x6, champ, doom siren, power sword, Rhino with Combi-Melta -210pts

Elites
Chosen x6, 3x plasma guns, 1 meltagun, champion, combi-plasma, Rhino with Havoc Launcher -233pts
Possessed x6, Icon of Slaanesh, Rhino with Combi-Melta - 221 pts


Heavy Support
Havocs x6, 3x Autocannon, 1 Missile Launcher, Icon of Chaos Glory -180pts
Defiler, battlecannnon, 4x DCCW 150 pts

1749

So i don't think it'll be much use to you as its nowhere near optimised and the troops are 3 x 6 squads of Noise Marines! but its strength lies in often getting a first turn charge with the possessed and the havocs de-meching stuff. It does tend to suffer against IG though. The chosen act as MC/deathstar unit killers and as a platform to bring in the GD. Like I said though, i wanted to take a themed CSM army to a tournament and not get my ass handed to me, i just did better than I thought I would.

5 games. Game 1 beat CSM, game 2 beat DE, game 3 lost to DE, game 4 beat Vanilla Marines and game 5 on table 7 I beat a nasty GK army.

That is nice, theme army is always a plus. But that also made me wonder how to SGD will play out in a list like mine though. I think using chosen to bring SGD is the most suitable use because of infiltrate rule, do you think a squad of 5 men chosen with 4x melta or plasma gun will work as well in my list?

outofblue99 wrote:That is nice, theme army is always a plus. But that also made me wonder how to SGD will play out in a list like mine though. I think using chosen to bring SGD is the most suitable use because of infiltrate rule, do you think a squad of 5 men chosen with 4x melta or plasma gun will work as well in my list?

Chosen could work here, but not as inflitrators. Give them a Rhino, meltaguns, and outflank them. Use them to nab some armoured monster (LR, LRBT, Monolith, etc) so you dont have to focus your oblits on it. Or you can run x4 plasma that way you can pop transports and still be effective against infrantry, but this depends on how you roll for get hots (personally, I roll about 5 a game).

Have you thought of using lesser daemons? I know they aren't worth a compared to real daemons, but with Icon support, they can be a handy assault unit.

I have thought of using lesser daemon in 2000 pts. army since I think at least you need 2 squads of 10+?? otherwise I think might be they are too small to do some damage and get their point back since they are so fragile..

outofblue99 wrote:I have thought of using lesser daemon in 2000 pts. army since I think at least you need 2 squads of 10+?? otherwise I think might be they are too small to do some damage and get their point back since they are so fragile..

Don't have my codex with me right now but....

Instead of running 2 10 daemon squads, try running one 15 unit. Give a personal icon to all your troops which then allows you to have a threat bubble of 14 inches around tne icon (DS 6in away, get another 2 from number of bases, then 6in assault range) to assault. With a 5++, they will fare better than your other troops against things like GK or other PW heavy lists.

Guess out of all here is the final...

HQ

Daemon Prince, MoS, Wing, LoS
Daemon Prince, MoS, Wing, LoS
Summon Greater Deamon

ELITE

5 Chosen, 4 Melta Gun, Rhino

TROOP

8 Khorne Berserker, Champion, PF in Rhino
8 Khorne Berserker, Champion, PF in Rhino
5 Plague Marine, 2 plasma
5 Plague Marine, 2 plasma

HEAVY

3 Obliterator
2 Obliterator

Total: 1750

Again the plague marines without transport will have trouble reaching objectives, at the end of the day I can sacrifice 1 obliterator for 2 extra rhino of the PM. what do you guys think?

I think this is looking good - if you do like you suggest and drop one obliterator to give both those plague marine squads rhinos then its very good. I still think you lack slightly in the de-meching stuff department and thats important in a lash army, but it will prrobably still beat a lot of face

Remember, your SGD has to possess a champion so make sure one of you zerker champs isn't upgraded, otherwise your just throwing away 25 points for that powerfist. With that 25 points, i'd take a combi-melta on your Chosen's rhino as it will be able to fire at a different target from your squad and another one on one of the zerkers rhino.

With the last 5 points why not take a personal icon on one of your zerkers units in case for some reason the tactical advantadge would require you to deep strike princes or oblits. Don't know why you'd ever want to deep strike you princes but there you go.

IMO needs more noise marines

Caranthir987 wrote:I still think you lack slightly in the de-meching stuff department and thats important in a lash army

I was hoping that Chosen with meltas will cover that. Will have to see how the list play out in a real game. the problem with melta is that it need to be up close and to be honest, rhino might not even make it to the front line, plasma gun may serve the same as the auto cannon you suggested but it is too unstable for 4 men squad. hmm.....

well, thank you for your feedback, you helped me out a lot