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Couple questions are popping up when I think of this weapon. It's a str 8 AP 1 template weapon that says to wound rolls are made against the targets leadership.

1. If the unit is say a tactical squad since the majority of the unit is leadership 8 would it be 4+ to wound? Or would it use the sergeants 9?

2. Since it's strength 8 would it double out 2 wound models with a 4 toughness?

4+, as majority leadership lis like majority toughness

Only if they havea Ld of 4, as you are wounding against Leaderhip.

nosferatu1001 wrote:4+, as majority leadership lis like majority toughness

Only if they havea Ld of 4, as you are wounding against Leaderhip.

Couldn't have said it any better myself

Just busted out the rulebook for the rules on instant death. It says it a model suffers a wound from an attack that is double it's toughness or greater it is killed outright.... Even tho it's rolling against leadership to wound am not sure you just substitute the word leadership for toughness when it concerns insta kill

General_Chaos wrote:Just busted out the rulebook for the rules on instant death. It says it a model suffers a wound from an attack that is double it's toughness or greater it is killed outright.... Even tho it's rolling against leadership to wound am not sure you just substitute the word leadership for toughness when it concerns insta kill

This. Even though you attempt to Wound against the target model's leadership, all ID cares about is whether the affected model's Toughness (as in the characteristic) is equal to or less than half the attack's Strength. I would think that the target would suffer ID from this attack if its Toughness is 4 or less.

-Yad

What do the rules for the neural shredder say? Doesn't the GK book have something similar?

The FAQs for both the Neural Shredder and Asdrubael Vect's Orbs, which have the same mechanics, specify that instant death works off leadership in these cases.

I also think this targets the highest leadership. Since, if you read the rules for IC's and leadership. It says that the IC gives the unit its leadership. So, if you use a leadership targeting weapon it still has to attack the hightest value. Maybe not in cases with sergants but IC's atleast is covered by the rules.

... That's so wrong it hurts. Just like you take the majority Toughness when shooting a unit, you would take the majority Leadership.

Also, what page does it say IC's give their LD to the squad?

Actually the rules for ICs do not actually say that, unless i've missed something on pages 48 - 49

Wound against Ld exactly as you would against T - so majority Ld.

Every single weapon which wounds against Ld only causes ID when you double Ld, not T

When I can I'll find the rules on the leadership thing.
For now, can you justify why the shooting would go against the average leadership? Cause its not a normal shooting attack which normally has rules that say, "take the average toughness".

Where as there are rules that say, a unit uses the highest leadership.

This some how got posted in the wrong thread. Sorry.

Nevermind for now...

ZombieJoe wrote:When I can I'll find the rules on the leadership thing.
For now, can you justify why the shooting would go against the average leadership? Cause its not a normal shooting attack which normally has rules that say, "take the average toughness".

Where as there are rules that say, a unit uses the highest leadership.

The rules say a unit uses the highest leadership for leadership tests.

So we can't justify using the highest leadership for shooting, but we have to figure out what number to roll against.
The gun says to use Leadership instead of Toughness.
The rules say to use the majority Toughness.
In this case, the gun shoots against the majority Leadership.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Kevin949 wrote:

nosferatu1001 wrote:4+, as majority leadership lis like majority toughness

Only if they havea Ld of 4, as you are wounding against Leaderhip.

Buuuut, the qualifier for Instant death is that the strength of the weapon is double the toughness of the target. It doesn't matter what you're wounding against, the STR of the weapon is 8 and the toughness of the target is 4. Even though you roll against leadership, the staff meets the requirements for instant death.

Other test vs Leadership weapons have been FAQed to say ID vs Leadership. Expect this to be the same. Playing otherwise would be doing yourself a disservice.

rigeld2 wrote:

ZombieJoe wrote:When I can I'll find the rules on the leadership thing.
For now, can you justify why the shooting would go against the average leadership? Cause its not a normal shooting attack which normally has rules that say, "take the average toughness".

Where as there are rules that say, a unit uses the highest leadership.

The rules say a unit uses the highest leadership for leadership tests.

So we can't justify using the highest leadership for shooting, but we have to figure out what number to roll against.
The gun says to use Leadership instead of Toughness.
The rules say to use the majority Toughness.
In this case, the gun shoots against the majority Leadership.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Kevin949 wrote:

nosferatu1001 wrote:4+, as majority leadership lis like majority toughness

Only if they havea Ld of 4, as you are wounding against Leaderhip.

Buuuut, the qualifier for Instant death is that the strength of the weapon is double the toughness of the target. It doesn't matter what you're wounding against, the STR of the weapon is 8 and the toughness of the target is 4. Even though you roll against leadership, the staff meets the requirements for instant death.

Other test vs Leadership weapons have been FAQed to say ID vs Leadership. Expect this to be the same. Playing otherwise would be doing yourself a disservice.

So why in every other case on this board is it not ok to use an FAQ for another codex except in this case (even if the rules work the same) is it now ok to use other armies FAQ's as a point of argument?
I'll simply say it here, GK=/=Necron.

Either way, I won't be using that weapon anyway.

Kevin949 wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:

Kevin949 wrote:

nosferatu1001 wrote:4+, as majority leadership lis like majority toughness

Only if they havea Ld of 4, as you are wounding against Leaderhip.

Buuuut, the qualifier for Instant death is that the strength of the weapon is double the toughness of the target. It doesn't matter what you're wounding against, the STR of the weapon is 8 and the toughness of the target is 4. Even though you roll against leadership, the staff meets the requirements for instant death.

Other test vs Leadership weapons have been FAQed to say ID vs Leadership. Expect this to be the same. Playing otherwise would be doing yourself a disservice.

So why in every other case on this board is it not ok to use an FAQ for another codex except in this case (even if the rules work the same) is it now ok to use other armies FAQ's as a point of argument?
I'll simply say it here, GK=/=Necron.

Either way, I won't be using that weapon anyway.

You can argue it that way - and that's fine. My point is that a Necron FAQ hasn't been released yet. In other discussions that may not be the case. When a Necron FAQ is released, expect it to talk about using Leadership instead of Toughness when determining ID. Playing otherwise will mean that you have to change tactics after an (obivous imo) FAQ clarification.

rigeld2 wrote:
You can argue it that way - and that's fine. My point is that a Necron FAQ hasn't been released yet. In other discussions that may not be the case. When a Necron FAQ is released, expect it to talk about using Leadership instead of Toughness when determining ID. Playing otherwise will mean that you have to change tactics after an (obivous imo) FAQ clarification.

And is why I edited my original post but apparently you were too fast.