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Using Excel to calculate the number of failed saves on 40 shots.
I think termies would cost 450 for TH/SH but someone can correct me.

Conclusion I draw: The 3+/4+/5+ is almost dead even for surviability as TH/SH termies. If you add a res orb then your looking at something that will even survive longer for about the same amount of points. As for damage someone else can run the numbers on that. But I imagine STR 5 to toughness 4 with a warsythe added in will be about equal to terminators going 2nd since they are I1 to the necrons I2.

010101010110100000101100001000000111011101101000011000010111010000111111

Just use the last number on the thing I included lots of data but didn't put it in a table because it didnt want to copy from excel. PM me and I can email you a copy if your curious to see.

Please round to 2dp!

The terminators are better because they will not usually be made up of 10 TH/SS.
There will usually be 4 LC guys in there, and the LC guys attack first, and skew the numbers back to the Terminators, since each LC terminator has 3 attacks and 4 on the assault.

Most TH/SS termies are also 40 points a pop, not 45.

lunarman wrote:Please round to 2dp!

I'll repost when I get back to work.

As for LC's if you have LC's in there they will all die the first round of combat, they get to reroll to wound but htey only hit on 4's and wound on 5's.

So say you have 4, 12 attacks on recieving charge and 16 on charge. You get 6 or 8 depending on who charged to hit, you wound (*1/3) then ((2/3) *1/3) 3.33 time if you didn't get charge or 4.44 wounds. Necrons save 1/2 those (4+) So if you charge you drop 1.67 if you didnt charge or 2.22 if you did. So lets call it 2 to make the rest of this math simpler.

Necrons go, They hit 8 times with guard and 1 time with lord. (5.33 and .833) or 6.16 now if you charged or 12 times with guard and 1.5 times with lord if they charged. (8 and 1.25) or 9.25. Now your terminators are going to have to eat 6-10 wounds. If your lucky its only 6 and no LC have to make saves. If not only 1 of your lc's is going to survive and 4 of your terminators with TH/SS. (so either 5 term's left or 8 terms left) now thunderhammers go. They will hit with 4 of them that are left (4 - 6 hits depends on charge). (3.333 - 5 wounds) (1.67 - 2.5) necrons die.

Get back up on a 4+

so 4-5 necrons die if you get the charge, if they get the charge 5 Termies die. About a draw combat.

They get to pickup 2-3 with orb. so 2-3 necrons die for 5 terminators are the best case scenarios. I'll run tables to show.

10 Lychguard with shields and a Lord w/orb are 515 points.

10 Terminators with TH/SS are 400.

DarknessEternal wrote:10 Lychguard with shields and a Lord w/orb are 515 points.

10 Terminators with TH/SS are 400.

Not to mention the Overlord you have to take to unlock the Lord. Sure, you're likely to take one anyway, but still.

You mean you have to take the overlord. And it depends on the codex for the cost.
That same unit is 600 points in the spacewolf codex.

runmymouth wrote:You mean you have to take the overlord. And it depends on the codex for the cost.
That same unit is 600 points in the spacewolf codex.

Guess why no Space Wolf player ever takes TH/SS termies? It's 200 points in 3 of the 5 Codices it's available in.

215 in dark angels. But yes you are right I could take 2 lychguard out to make the points balance out better.


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Still pretty about even. It changes the numbers slightly when you run 8 lychguard instead. It still is a tarpit and is still pretty even.

I'm rather curious why you would try to tarpit an elite unit with another elite unit?

Because I was thinking they were horrible until I did my math hammer on it. The 3+/4+/4++ is actually not badly costed. 45 points a model for it isn't that bad actually. They are able to absorb shots a lot better than terminators. They can stand their ground in h2h with terminators.

Also learned if I am playing against them drop a few ap3 or better on them and just don't charge them. Go for squishier units instead.

runmymouth wrote:215 in dark angels. But yes you are right I could take 2 lychguard out to make the points balance out better.


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Still pretty about even. It changes the numbers slightly when you run 8 lychguard instead. It still is a tarpit and is still pretty even.

Isn't the 15 extra points for veteran skills though?

runmymouth wrote:
Get back up on a 4+

You forget the step before this where the Lychguard take a morale test to fall back on a 7 or 8 (-2 or -3 assuming average rolls).


From a mathmatical perspective Assault Termies and Lychguard or fairly similar (with Lychguard being a bit sub-par unless they charge).


But the big, big, big assumption here is that you are on even footing. Lychguard can only take night-scythes and those termies WILL be rolling up in a landraider (honestly the termi unit will be costing 620+ points with the transport so in that sense Lychguard are cheaper).

I'd expect the Lychguard to have been whittled down a bit from shooting before they get into CC.

My answer to either unit would be 15 burna boys upgraded with cybork bodies. 300 point unit with a 5++, 3 attacks on the charge and power weapons. If they are in a battlewagon with a red paint job that means they have an 18" threat radius. Or a 10 strong unit of Bloodbrides with three sets of hydra gauntlets (1D6 extra attacks) with a Syren equipped with a power weapon and a Succubus with a power weapon. They have a 4++ in close combat and on the charge would put out 33+3D6 regular attacks, 9 power weapon attacks on the charge for 255 points. My point is that nearly every army has some unit that can counter anything the enemy has. It's as much a matter of deployment and tactics as it is mathhammer. And never forget the whims of the dice gods.

AlmightyWalrus wrote:

runmymouth wrote:215 in dark angels. But yes you are right I could take 2 lychguard out to make the points balance out better.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Still pretty about even. It changes the numbers slightly when you run 8 lychguard instead. It still is a tarpit and is still pretty even.

Isn't the 15 extra points for veteran skills though?

Nope its the old codex tax. But they can be troops but you can never take more than 5 in a squad... And never less than 5 in squad...