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After some time away from my beloved bikers, I am feeling a need for speed again. However, things have changed since I last played bikes, so the list is due for some modernization. I also want an up-scaled version. Here are my current drafts:

1500 List

HQ - 315
Captain, bike, powerfist, combi-plasma, hellfire rounds
180pts
Librarian, bike, avenger, nullzone
135pts

Elite - 240
6 Assault Terminators, TH&SS
240pts

Troops - 645
4 Bikes, MM Attack Bike, 2xplasma, powerfist
220pts
4 Bikes, MM Attack Bike, 2xplasma, powerfist
220pts
4 Bikes, MM Attack Bike, 2xplasma, combi-plasma
205pts

Fast - 300
2xMM Attack Bike
100pts
2xMM Attack Bike
100pts
2xMM Attack Bike
100pts


1850 List

HQ - 305

Captain, bike, powerfist, combi-plasma
170pts
Librarian, bike, avenger, nullzone
135pts

Elite - 240
6 Assault Terminators, TH&SS
240pts

Troops - 1005
4 Bikes, MM Attack Bike, 2xplasma, powerfist
220pts
4 Bikes, MM Attack Bike, 2xplasma, powerfist
220pts
4 Bikes, MM Attack Bike, 2xplasma
195pts
4 Bikes, MM Attack Bike, 2xplasma
195pts
4 Bikes, HB Attack Bike, 2xflamer, combi-flamer
175pts

Fast - 300
2xMM Attack Bike
100pts
2xMM Attack Bike
100pts
2xMM Attack Bike
100pts

Holy crap! I actually spent over a 1000pts on troops Gotta love those biker thugs

Comments on weaknesses? Suggestions for improvements?

Termies do nothing for you.
Powerfists are a waste as your bike squads should run away from cc.

Take a cc command squad with stormshield and bikes for your cc needs.
Also probably take some typhoons for some long range yet quick support.

Have fun,
Fletch

Captain I'd give a relic blade over a power fist. For the price you could take Khan, certainly if you're looking at a bike command squad in the 1850 list - hit and run and furious charge on these can make it a real hammer unit.

Fists on normal bike sergeants are points you can spend elsewhere.

MFletch wrote:Termies do nothing for you.

Sure they do, they do lots of stuff. In pitched battle/spearhead, they can provide cover to the bikes. Bikes also generally play around the 24" line in my experience. A group of assault termies placed smack in the middle deters fast close combat forces.

MFletch wrote:Powerfists are a waste as your bike squads should run away from cc.

I disagree. Powerfist means they can be thrown into close combat when needed. Especially nice against tanks. Also nice to at least give cc units some pause. I was f.ex. charged by scarabs in my last game, and the powerfist made it easy to punch my way out, meaning that the scarabs didn't get to tie me up forever. The board, missions and biker range means you can't run away forever. Many cc units are also too fast to run away from, which is were the termies come in. Yes, you can get a charge on a unit of bikes, but you will have to deal with the termies afterwards.

MFletch wrote:Take a cc command squad with stormshield and bikes for your cc needs.
Also probably take some typhoons for some long range yet quick support.

ruminator wrote: Captain I'd give a relic blade over a power fist. For the price you could take Khan, certainly if you're looking at a bike command squad in the 1850 list - hit and run and furious charge on these can make it a real hammer unit.

Fists on normal bike sergeants are points you can spend elsewhere.

CC command squad on bikes is insanely expensive. When you put stormshields, special weapons and ccw's, you are quickly looking at 80!! pts for a single wound marine. I agree that bikes need some cc boost, but IMO, command squads are not the answer. If you have suggestions on command squad builds that actually work, I would like to see them.

Not loving typhoons in a biker list. MM attack bikes are made of awesome, and the typhoons will be the only AV on the field.

Relic blade is meh IMO. I find that S8 instant-kill and extra vehicle-killing power is worth it over the initiative loss.

Khan is cool with assault termies, but funny enough, I don't feel that he fits a biker list. Outflank blows for bikers, and the command squad is so fast that hit-and-run is less of a boost.

Illumini wrote:Khan is cool with assault termies, but funny enough, I don't feel that he fits a biker list. Outflank blows for bikers, and the command squad is so fast that hit-and-run is less of a boost.

It is more Khan gets rid of combat tactics that make it a blow for bikers and hit and run is amazing to keep the command squad fast.

The typhoons were a suggestion to give you something with some long range threat, even with turbo boost you can be refused a flank etc.

Your army relies on hit and run tactics and not giving the enemy any targets. Then you land 200 pt models for his guns to shoot at. Assault termies are a great meat shield just not in this army.

Yeah, Khan is bad in biker lists for many reasons. I disagree that hit-and-run is amazing for cc command squads. They are already very mobile, so they should be able to choose their match-ups. Hit and run benefits termies greatly because it gives them a lot of extra movement, and once they are outside a raider, they are slow, meaning they often won't get to choose their opponents.

With bikes, you can't be refused a flank on a normal 4x6 table, refusing a flank is one of the core biker tactics IMO. Typhoons aren't bad, they can keep badies stunned and can do some anti-infantry work, but they are expensive, I would rather have the 2xMM AB's for pretty much the same price. Worse anti-infantry, much better anti-tank

It is impossible to not present some targets to the enemy. IMO, bikers are not that much about hit-and-run tactics, they are about forcing uneven force distribution. You pitch your entire army against a part of the enemy army.
The enemy can fire at my assault termies, and that would be great. They are pretty much the most resilient thing you can field in a marine army, so please shoot at them instead of my much more fragile bikers.

One change I'm thinking about in the 1850 list is:
- Librarian 135
- Plasma Squad 195

+Vulkan/Shrike 190/195
+3 assault terminators 120
+ some small gear

Vulkan for very reliable melta, increased value of flamer squad and MC thunderhammers, shrike for vastly increased threat-range on termies.

Of course, taking either means loosing combat tactics, a scoring unit and psy-protection/nullzone, so not sure it is worth it.