Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

I was reading another thread on here and had a thought, Can marines that are born of chaos turn loyal? I would think that they could provided they weren't mutated and went straight to the chapter master for judgement, hiding ther origins.

But if they could would they want to?


Nom

No.

If the Imperium didn't know of their origins then what they don't know can't harm them. But I find it very unlikely even if they were truly sorry. They would either be immediately slaughtered or suffer intense interrogation by the Inquisition because nobody ever knows the true purpose of Chaos and they would very likely be called liars and executed.

A heretic can in time, through purgation of pain, be forgiven.

For the traitor their shall be no forgiveness.

CSM aren't called the traitor legions for nothing.

Read the Short Story Daemonblood, in the anthology Let the Galaxy Burn.

Its about Brother-Sergeant Castus, of the Ultramarines. He is forced into becoming a follower of chaos (they basically mind raped him into it). Over a period of a few decades afterwards, when he is a chaos champion, he finds the strength of will to break free of the taint and turn on his masters. I think he's convinced by a sister of battle to turn or something. Don't remember it fully. Was a pretty cool story though.

phantommaster wrote:If the Imperium didn't know of their origins then what they don't know can't harm them. But I find it very unlikely even if they were truly sorry. They would either be immediately slaughtered or suffer intense interrogation by the Inquisition because nobody ever knows the true purpose of Chaos and they would very likely be called liars and executed.

They would in theory have nothing to be sorry for since they were born and bred to be chaos.

Horst wrote:Read the Short Story Daemonblood, in the anthology Let the Galaxy Burn.

Its about Brother-Sergeant Castus, of the Ultramarines. He is forced into becoming a follower of chaos (they basically mind raped him into it). Over a period of a few decades afterwards, when he is a chaos champion, he finds the strength of will to break free of the taint and turn on his masters. I think he's convinced by a sister of battle to turn or something. Don't remember it fully. Was a pretty cool story though.

I will check that out. thanks.


nom

The important question we're all missing is whether Traitor Traitor Marines would have more spikes or fewer.

I dunno, but they'd certainly have a lot of skulls, if you ask me.

If you read Daemon World, then, as far as Chaos is concerned, then yes, but the Imperium would never see it that way. Arguleon Veq, a legendary Chaos Champion who corrupted the Eldar maiden world of Torvendis and transformed into a Daemon World. Veq was known and part of the Word Bearers Legion as Karnulon, a powerful Chaos Sorcerer. Veq came to realize that no matter how powerful he was under Chaos, under Chaos he never did anything he was proud of. Angry against Chaos, he insulted the Dark Gods by awakening the World Spirit of Torvendis (now insane) which promptly destroyed itself. He might have died in the planet's destruction, but it is implied he survived and still wanders the maelstrom, as a final punishment from the Dark Gods, since continuing to survive knowing that he failed to die while insulting Chaos would a worse punishment than death and eternal torment in the warp.

"A Heretic may see the truth and seek redemption. He may be forgiven his past and will be absolved in death. A Traitor can never be forgiven. A Traitor will never find peace in this world or the next. There is nothing as wretched or as hated in all the world as a Traitor."

From Codex: Witch Hunters.

The traitor marine in question might not have had any choice in the matter, but he's part of a traitor legion, and there's nothing the Imperium hates more.

Why should a traitor marine turn "loyal"? What would he get? After all his soul already belongs to the infernal powers.
Arguleon Veq fought chaos out of ( rather justified imo ) spite and not out of loyality to some corpse on a golden chair.

KingDeath wrote:Why should a traitor marine turn "loyal"? What would he get? After all his soul already belongs to the infernal powers.
Arguleon Veq fought chaos out of ( rather justified imo ) spite and not out of loyality to some corpse on a golden chair.

Yeah, I know. But in a way he did turn against Chaos in the end out of anger after being twisted from one of mankind's greatest heroes into a monster who damned an entire world and sacrificed countless souls to Chaos. In the twisted sort of way, he fulfilled one of the Emperor's purposes for the Space Marines: to achieve victory against an undefeatable enemy in an situation where victory is hopeless.

Skarwael wrote:"A Heretic may see the truth and seek redemption. He may be forgiven his past and will be absolved in death. A Traitor can never be forgiven. A Traitor will never find peace in this world or the next. There is nothing as wretched or as hated in all the world as a Traitor."

From Codex: Witch Hunters.

The traitor marine in question might not have had any choice in the matter, but he's part of a traitor legion, and there's nothing the Imperium hates more.

Good call, I was going to post this quote.

I also give the OP this short story

http://www.blacklibrary.com/all-products/Into-The-Maelstrom.html

I don't think ones that are born of Chaos would ever change though, they would be chaotic from the go.

One word. *Deathwatch* If my memmory serves correct is that Deathwatch is made out of Elite hand picked soldiers from every corner of the universe, some that survive their tour of duty in the deathwatch make the choice of staying, rather then going back to thier chapter. But very rarely a space marines
with no markings or origin shows up to join the deathwatch. These unknowns might be from a lost og destroyed chapter or even one that has great hidden shame that he wants to repent in fire or in death. For the deathwatch is a deathsentance for most or redemtion for a few!



Automatically Appended Next Post:
Question is who are these unknowns

There's always the option to do it the Alpha Legion way: Turn up as a lost Marine of whatever chapter. Of course, this only works if you aren't mutated already...

akkados wrote:One word. *Deathwatch* If my memmory serves correct is that Deathwatch is made out of Elite hand picked soldiers from every corner of the universe, some that survive their tour of duty in the deathwatch make the choice of staying, rather then going back to thier chapter. But very rarely a space marines
with no markings or origin shows up to join the deathwatch. These unknowns might be from a lost og destroyed chapter or even one that has great hidden shame that he wants to repent in fire or in death. For the deathwatch is a deathsentance for most or redemtion for a few!

Ah the Blackshields. The Deathwatch RPG book has fluff that strongly implies that one of the Blackshields in the sector the game takes place in was a Fallen DA. Was doing a good job too, got promoted up to Watch Captain or something.

I would say no. They might turn against Chaos, but their reasons for leaving the Imperium remain valid.

akkados wrote:One word. *Deathwatch* If my memmory serves correct is that Deathwatch is made out of Elite hand picked soldiers from every corner of the universe, some that survive their tour of duty in the deathwatch make the choice of staying, rather then going back to thier chapter. But very rarely a space marines
with no markings or origin shows up to join the deathwatch. These unknowns might be from a lost og destroyed chapter or even one that has great hidden shame that he wants to repent in fire or in death. For the deathwatch is a deathsentance for most or redemtion for a few!

There's no way the Deathwatch allows a traitor into its ranks. Black Shields are supposed to be Marines who failed horribly at some great task, or whose Chapter (but not they) turned to Chaos. Something like that. A shame, or dishonor. Falliing to Chaos is irredeemable, especially for a Space Marine. And there isn't a chance in the Warp the Inquisition inducts a known traitor into one of its inner circles.

The first rule of Blackshields is, you don't talk about Blackshields.

Basically a marine rolls up in plain black armor, and the Deathwatch just takes him on his word that he's there to help. There's no job interview that starts off with "Tell me about your personal shame that led you to want this job."

It's possible. It's a big galaxy after all.

The Imperium doesn't even frown on repenters. They have the Emperor's Mercy for a reason.

daveNYC wrote:The first rule of Blackshields is, you don't talk about Blackshields.

Basically a marine rolls up in plain black armor, and the Deathwatch just takes him on his word that he's there to help. There's no job interview that starts off with "Tell me about your personal shame that led you to want this job."

I think you misread the entry for the Black Shields. They still have to petition for entry, and entry can be denied. That sort of suggests there's an application and screening process, even if the other Brothers of the Deathwatch aren't allowed to ask him about his past.

It's downright ludicrous to think there's some kind of "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" policy enacted inside the Inquisition. Otherwise, the entire Deathwatch would be riddled with Alpha Legion... Hmm. Yeah, as funny as that sounds, no, I don't think there's a chance in hell they just allow anyone to show up, and then give them a new name and a French Passport like it's the Foreign Legion or something. I mean, the possibility of a traitor is there. If anything is constant, it's that apparently Chaos can infiltrate everywhere that a MacGuffin or other plot device is needed.

But remember, there's also the distinction between simple heretics and full blown traitors. For example, if we're just talking about a Marine who was tempted, but later resisted and is trying to expunge the shame, that's one thing. If he's been tainted and turned by Chaos at some point, no. He might, at best, be granted a death that didn't involve decades of torture.

I think that a traitor marine can return to loyal technically (as in he now wants to redeem himself and work for the best of humanity), but they will be killed if they servive whatever act they feel returns them to loyalty.

DarknessEternal wrote:It's possible. It's a big galaxy after all.

The Imperium doesn't even frown on repenters. They have the Emperor's Mercy for a reason.

"The Emperor's mercy" is an in-game euphemism for euthanasia. Backfire'd

Armless Failure wrote:

DarknessEternal wrote:It's possible. It's a big galaxy after all.

The Imperium doesn't even frown on repenters. They have the Emperor's Mercy for a reason.

"The Emperor's mercy" is an in-game euphemism for euthanasia. Backfire'd

I'm aware of what it is and said it intentionally.

Sure they can try. They'll get executed.

[/thread]