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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/11/19 14:37:22
Subject: Objective markers...Can they be on any level of a building?
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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So last year I heard a rumor that with the high amount of beasts, bikes, and other units that can't go up onto higher floor of buildings, only ground floor. There would be a FAQ stating this.
I have people telling me this is fact. I ask for hard copy of FAQ and no one knows where it is. Some say BRB in ruins section, others say FAQ. So with that in mind...
Is this the rule via FAQ or just an unjustified rumor? If rule, where is it located.
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2012 tourney record:
Eldar 18W-2L-5D Overall x4
Deathwing 21W-7L-6D Overall x4 Best General x1 Best Appearance x3, 19th place Adepticon 40k Champs.
Space Wolves 2W-0L-1D Best Painted x1
Armies:
1850+ pts. 3000+ pts. 2000+
40k bits go to my ebay... http://stores.shop.ebay.com/K-K-Gaming-and-Bits |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/11/19 14:54:40
Subject: Objective markers...Can they be on any level of a building?
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Lord Commander in a Plush Chair
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currently rumor; unless you want to read the restriction against placing the objectives in immpassable terrain to mean: "impassable to any units"; as opposed to just what is classed as impassable in total.
it could be argued either way:
Against: To bikes/beasts/etc, above ground level is impassable; therefore counter placement is invalid.
For: to infantry,/ jump infantry/etc, above ground is merely difficult; therefore counter placement is valid.
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This is my Rulebook. There are many Like it, but this one is mine. Without me, my rulebook is useless. Without my rulebook, I am useless.
Stop looking for buzz words and start reading the whole sentences.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/11/19 16:18:22
Subject: Objective markers...Can they be on any level of a building?
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Growlin' Guntrukk Driver with Killacannon
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It is completely legal to place the marker on the top floor of a ruin/building. In fact, in one of the GW site scenarios, the objective was to have the model that was higher than all the rest, so on top of ruins or mountains of rubble. Bikes couldn't climb but were still included in the scenario.
Look up the 'rise of da mangler' campaign on their site.
-cgmckenzie
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1500 pts
3000 pts
4-5k+pts
======Begin Dakka Geek Code======
DS:80-S+G++M+++B+IPw40k10#++D++A+++/hWD387R+++T(D)DM+
======End Dakka Geek Code====== |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/11/19 16:22:54
Subject: Objective markers...Can they be on any level of a building?
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Dakka Veteran
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absolutely leagal if a bit sketchy to do against an all beast or bike army
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/11/19 20:56:27
Subject: Objective markers...Can they be on any level of a building?
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[DCM]
Tilter at Windmills
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Absolutely legal. This is one of the few disadvantages of Bikes and Cavalry.
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Adepticon 2015: Team Tourney Best Imperial Team- Team Ironguts, Adepticon 2014: Team Tourney 6th/120, Best Imperial Team- Cold Steel Mercs 2, 40k Championship Qualifier ~25/226
More 2010-2014 GT/Major RTT Record (W/L/D) -- CSM: 78-20-9 // SW: 8-1-2 (Golden Ticket with SW), BA: 29-9-4 6th Ed GT & RTT Record (W/L/D) -- CSM: 36-12-2 // BA: 11-4-1 // SW: 1-1-1
DT:70S++++G(FAQ)M++B++I+Pw40k99#+D+++A+++/sWD105R+++T(T)DM+++++
A better way to score Sportsmanship in tournaments
The 40K Rulebook & Codex FAQs. You should have these bookmarked if you play this game.
The Dakka Dakka Forum Rules You agreed to abide by these when you signed up.
Maelstrom's Edge! |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/11/20 01:15:35
Subject: Objective markers...Can they be on any level of a building?
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Thanks
I can put this rumor to rest.
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2012 tourney record:
Eldar 18W-2L-5D Overall x4
Deathwing 21W-7L-6D Overall x4 Best General x1 Best Appearance x3, 19th place Adepticon 40k Champs.
Space Wolves 2W-0L-1D Best Painted x1
Armies:
1850+ pts. 3000+ pts. 2000+
40k bits go to my ebay... http://stores.shop.ebay.com/K-K-Gaming-and-Bits |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/11/20 09:53:55
Subject: Objective markers...Can they be on any level of a building?
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Frenzied Berserker Terminator
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Indeed, it seems to be legal to put it on any level of a ruin. Locally, we've ruled that objectives can't be placed any higher than the level above ground level, simply because we have some very tall ruins that would make for a very boring game, spending several turns trying to climb it.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/11/20 10:09:31
Subject: Objective markers...Can they be on any level of a building?
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Ork Boy Hangin' off a Trukk
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Legal but very poor sportsmanship if is gives an advantage to one side (i.e making it totaly impossible for one player to get the objective.).
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/11/20 14:35:26
Subject: Re:Objective markers...Can they be on any level of a building?
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Thrall Wizard of Tzeentch
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News just in it's poor sportsmanship to use stratagy
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"The most merciful thing in the world, I think, is the inability of the human mind to correlate all its contents."
~The Call of Cthulhu |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/11/20 18:07:01
Subject: Objective markers...Can they be on any level of a building?
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Novice Knight Errant Pilot
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Paul wrote:Legal but very poor sportsmanship if is gives an advantage to one side (i.e making it totaly impossible for one player to get the objective.).
It's no more poor sportmanship to put the objective off the ground than it is to put your units on a higher level to keep them from being reached by Bikes, Beasts, and other things that can't be forced to climb stairs.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/11/20 20:07:46
Subject: Objective markers...Can they be on any level of a building?
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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Paul wrote:Legal but very poor sportsmanship if is gives an advantage to one side (i.e making it totaly impossible for one player to get the objective.).
Incredible, how is good strategy poor sportsmanship?
If you take an all bike / beast etc army, you know you are leaving yourself in trouble in certain missions. Why are you expecting your opponent to make up for your decisions not being optimal in all games?
Some people have NO idea what the phrase "poor sportsmanship" means
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/11/20 21:10:12
Subject: Objective markers...Can they be on any level of a building?
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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It is poor sportmanship if your goal is to play a game with your opponent for fun, but your action based on his matchup means your opponent can not win said game.
Example, you are playing your buddy for fun who wants to play his all bike ravenwing. You then grab lots of tall ruins, place the objectives where he can never, ever get to them, and force your friend to have no chance of winning ever.
Bad sportsmanship.
Example, you are playing in a tourney, and notice that your opponent took a bike heavy list. The terrain the tourney set up included a tall ruin. You put one of your objectives up high, forcing your opponent to either shoot you off it or focus on getting more of the other objectives.
Not bad sportsmanship.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/11/20 21:11:49
Subject: Objective markers...Can they be on any level of a building?
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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Your opponent CAN win the game, by tabling you. You know, that condition that lets you win ANY game?
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/11/21 09:12:33
Subject: Objective markers...Can they be on any level of a building?
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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If you hide on the top of ruins where he can not see or go, then tabling will be mighty hard dont you think?
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/11/21 09:52:12
Subject: Objective markers...Can they be on any level of a building?
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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So you dont bring any ranged weapons at all with any range? There's nowhere on the board you can go?
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/11/21 09:55:25
Subject: Objective markers...Can they be on any level of a building?
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Again nos, the situation is that you picked ruins with the intention that your friendly opponent cant win the game.
So no, there is nowhere your opponent can go to gain LOS, as terrain was chosen that makes bikes unable to win.
Which is bad sportsmanship... stop defending it?
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/11/21 10:03:53
Subject: Objective markers...Can they be on any level of a building?
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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It still isnt bad sportsmanship - perhaps its showing the opponent a limit to the game they werent aware of?
It's also not a "friendly" game then, is it?
Regardless - the claim that it is ALWAYS bad sportsmanship is demonstrably false, which was the real point, no?
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/11/21 22:58:16
Subject: Objective markers...Can they be on any level of a building?
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Sinewy Scourge
Grand ol US of A
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The bad sportsmanship part comes in when you pick all the high ruins AND you place all of the objectives. That's poor sportsmanship. Anyway aren't you supposed to alternate deployment of objectives anyway?
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d3m01iti0n wrote:
BT uses the Codex Astartes as toilet paper. They’re an Imp Fist successor, recruit from multiple planets, and are known to be the largest Chapter in the galaxy. They’re on a constant Crusade, keeping it real for the Emperor and not bumming around like the other guys. They hate psykers and can’t ally with them. They’re basically an entire chapter of Chaplains. CC lunatics. What every Space Marine should aspire to be, if not trapped in a Matt Ward nightmare.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/11/21 23:18:53
Subject: Objective markers...Can they be on any level of a building?
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Lone Wolf Sentinel Pilot
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Just because YOU picked terrain with lots of tall ruins does not mean the bike/cavalry player has to place HIS objectives on the upper floors.
He can place his 1-3 objectives on the ground floor (or even out in the open for last turn turbo-grabbing...would that also be "bad sportsmanship"?), hold his while gunning you down from yours.
For fun games you can also just do KPs. Or the old table-quarters. And since its a "fun game" you can allow bikes to go up floors or have troops on upper floors roll dangerous checks every turn (the floor gives out under your weight and you fall to your doom).
In a Tourny environment then its all strategy. While your Khan bike army can give someone fits as you set everything to outflanking in a KP mission, at some point your going to get hosed on an objective missions in ruins.
Kinda like the all TH/SS Deathwing Army getting matched up against foot-Orks with 5 objectives.
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Life isn't fair. But wouldn't it be worse if Life were fair, and all of the really terrible things that happen to us were because we deserved them?
M. Cole.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/11/22 14:11:26
Subject: Objective markers...Can they be on any level of a building?
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Ork Boy Hangin' off a Trukk
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nosferatu1001 wrote:Paul wrote:Legal but very poor sportsmanship if is gives an advantage to one side (i.e making it totaly impossible for one player to get the objective.).
Incredible, how is good strategy poor sportsmanship?
If you take an all bike / beast etc army, you know you are leaving yourself in trouble in certain missions. Why are you expecting your opponent to make up for your decisions not being optimal in all games?
Some people have NO idea what the phrase "poor sportsmanship" means
"Sportsmanship is an aspiration or ethos that a sport or activity will be enjoyed for its own sake, with proper consideration for fairness, ethics, respect, and a sense of fellowship with one's competitors."
And making it impossible to win (by normal means) is poor sportsmanship. Unfortunatly 40k is full of bad sportsmanship...
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/11/22 17:55:06
Subject: Objective markers...Can they be on any level of a building?
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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So:
Fairness - yep, it was equally fair as the player with the biker army knew this situation was possible, as it is in the rules
Ethics - is it ethical of you to expect your opponent, in a tournament, to not use the best strategy they have?
Respect - you place the objectives, point out they cannot win, you both realise this and play a game for fun. Bopth players win in this instance, as the biker army player realises a weakness of their army
Fellowship - nothing about this negates fellowship
Nope, none of that makes for a poor sports. Now, if you behvaiour in playing is poor, then thats a different matter -but exploiting tactical errors in list construction is NOT poor sports in and of itself.
Should a GK player who has actually taken SS and paid waaaay too much not cast Warpquake against a daemon army?
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/11/22 20:13:47
Subject: Objective markers...Can they be on any level of a building?
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Dakka Veteran
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nosferatu1001 wrote:Your opponent CAN win the game, by tabling you. You know, that condition that lets you win ANY game?
Actually not entirely true. In RTTs I run, and has been picked up by a few other TOs in this area, you must still be able to meet mission objectives for the battle points. ie if you sacrifice all your troop units in tabling your opponent then you can not claim the objective as you have nothing left to claim it with. Or if you table your opponent on turn 5 and still have troops left but the primary objective is 24" away from the nearest troop unit and you do not have enough movement distance left vice the number of turns remaining to claim it you would not get the win as you didn't meet the primary objective.
This makes players think about what they are doing.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/11/22 20:26:34
Subject: Objective markers...Can they be on any level of a building?
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[MOD]
Making Stuff
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Boss GreenNutz wrote:Actually not entirely true. In RTTs I run, and has been picked up by a few other TOs in this area, you must still be able to meet mission objectives for the battle points.
They were talking about casual games.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/11/22 20:42:09
Subject: Objective markers...Can they be on any level of a building?
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Dakka Veteran
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Even in casual games I don't see anything in the rulebook that says tabling an opponent results in a win. You still have to meet the criteria in the mission for a win. You can table an opponent with 5 KPs in his army but if you loose 6 in doing it you still loose.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/11/22 20:43:18
Subject: Objective markers...Can they be on any level of a building?
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Huge Bone Giant
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Check page 90, main rules, under WIPEOUT!
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/11/22 20:43:29
"It is not the bullet with your name on it that should worry you, it's the one labeled "To whom it may concern. . ."
DQ:70S++G+++MB+I+Pwhfb06+D++A+++/aWD-R++++T(D)DM+ |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/11/22 20:43:21
Subject: Objective markers...Can they be on any level of a building?
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Growlin' Guntrukk Driver with Killacannon
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If your opponent has no models on the table at the end of the game, you win.
-cgmckenzie
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1500 pts
3000 pts
4-5k+pts
======Begin Dakka Geek Code======
DS:80-S+G++M+++B+IPw40k10#++D++A+++/hWD387R+++T(D)DM+
======End Dakka Geek Code====== |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/11/22 22:16:28
Subject: Objective markers...Can they be on any level of a building?
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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Boss GreenNutz wrote:Even in casual games I don't see anything in the rulebook that says tabling an opponent results in a win. You still have to meet the criteria in the mission for a win. You can table an opponent with 5 KPs in his army but if you loose 6 in doing it you still loose.
Wipeout, page 90, has everything you need.
Additionally if you create bespoke missions that do not have the Wipeout! rule then my statement about "base" 40k games cant really apply
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