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Awesome Autarch






San Diego, California

Hey everyone,

We're batting around the idea of putting on a 1 day tournament. It would have the same or better prize support as a "normal" GT, and the same entry fee ($55-$75 with $1,000-$2,000 in prizes) but only take one day.

The upside would be only one day, obviously, the downside would be a smaller field and possibly less perceived value for your money.

Logistically it makes sense, as it means less overhead to throw the event (which means more money for prizes) and more people should be able to make it as it is less of a time commitment.

These types of events could also be held more frequently.

We were also discussing having these types of events as qualifiers for bigger tournaments such as the BAO, where the top finishers get free tickets and travel vouchers to go to said events.

Any thoughts on this? You are the guys who go to the events, so this would directly impact you all.

   
Made in us
Battlefield Professional





Los Angeles

I know a few folks who'd be much more apt to plunk down for a one-day event... it's a lot easier to finagle just a Saturday out from under the various wives, kids, girlfriends, and jobs out there, rather than a whole weekend.

How many rounds would you run?

-Dis.

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Awesome Autarch






San Diego, California

We were thinking the same thing.

4 rounds is the realistic limit for one day.

   
Made in us
Stone Bonkers Fabricator General






Home Base: Waconia, MN (Minneapolis)

You could do a 5 round 1:45 minute 1,500pt 1-day tournament. Comes out less than 9 hours of game time, it's easy to finish, and gives you more bang for your buck. Just my opinion. But I wouldn't mind something like what you've put up

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Awesome Autarch






San Diego, California

You know I like 1500, too, but a lot of people don't. I have fun playing 40K at any points level, honestly, but hey.

   
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Death-Dealing Devastator





Austin

This type of format would only encourage small elite armies, ones that could finish 6 turns in the time given, so no horde armies, gonna be alot of power armor.

 
   
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Battlefield Professional





Los Angeles

Hulksmash wrote:You could do a 5 round 1:45 minute 1,500pt 1-day tournament. Comes out less than 9 hours of game time, it's easy to finish, and gives you more bang for your buck. Just my opinion. But I wouldn't mind something like what you've put up


at 1:45 I'd be worried about the non-tournament regulars who are used to at least 2 hours finishing games. Though if the field is big enough I'd rather have five rounds than four, natch.

Four seems like the best compromise. Its enough games to get a clear winner and still have some breathing room on the round time. It would be something I could seriously consider, definitely.

-Dis.

MeanGreenStompa wrote:The 'Shadow in the Warp' is actually like a colossal game of tetris
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Huge Hierodule






Outflanking

Sounds like it would be good. My only concern is the entry fee; it might discourage a lot of the more casual types.

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Awesome Autarch






San Diego, California

Yeah, I agree with all of these statements.

1500 you can easily swing, and 1:45 is sufficient in the events we run to get a game in, even with larger armies.

This would be a "masters" type event, due to all of the reasons you guys listed. It would not be a populace style event, most likely.

The problem with 4 rounds though, is that it limits the field to 16 players with Swiss.

   
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Stone Bonkers Fabricator General






Home Base: Waconia, MN (Minneapolis)

@Fists

I don't think you've played much at 1,500. Even with model heavy armies (Kan Wall/Tervi Horde) you can easily finish a game in that time frame.

@Reece

It would really depend on the price to get in. I feel like the people who would pay for a single day event of 4-5 games would be similar to myself. Which means they probably wouldn't mind 1,500 at all as it gives a bang for your buck feeling. Otherwise I'd say don't clear 1,750 for a 4 game event if your going to keep them from 2-215 hours.

I'd gauge your local community. I don't see many people outside of a 1-2 hour drive time attending these over 2-day events for the same cost since at that point drive time and time invested are going to be more like a 2-day event anyway.

For me personally I think it's a great idea and would enjoy 4-5 games in a single day. I hope you can make it work

**Edit**

Well your response covered most of what I wrote but by god I wrote it so it stays up

Also my original thought was more of a certain type of player event, hence my suggestion of the 5-game 1,500pt set-up as it allows for 32 players in a swiss system.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2011/11/20 01:00:25


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Battlefield Professional





Los Angeles

Reecius wrote:Yeah, I agree with all of these statements.

1500 you can easily swing, and 1:45 is sufficient in the events we run to get a game in, even with larger armies.

This would be a "masters" type event, due to all of the reasons you guys listed. It would not be a populace style event, most likely.

The problem with 4 rounds though, is that it limits the field to 16 players with Swiss.


If you're going to be able to expect a certain type of player that you can count on to conduct games in an intelligent, timely manner you'd be fine with shorter round times.

-Dis.


MeanGreenStompa wrote:The 'Shadow in the Warp' is actually like a colossal game of tetris
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Awesome Autarch






San Diego, California

Yeah, I agree.

Well, I think we're going to give it a shot and see how it goes.

   
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Fickle Fury of Chaos




Trevor, WI

I love the idea of a single day event like what you are proposing. Personally, I find it much easier, and more preferable, to only blow a single day actually gaming. If that means I need to catch a red eye flight in/out, that is fine as I can still spend the majority of the next day with the kids.

Regarding the format, I am also a fan of 1500 points and <2 hours per round. As others have wrote, it will give that feel of getting a lot for your money.

Regarding the price point, I am cool with it if the quality is there and the event is well organized. If I am paying $50.00 to play on poorly constructed tables with minimal prize support and a lack of organization, I would never come back. If there are raffle prizes for just showing up, something fun to take away as a keep sake (dice, template, mug, etc...) and I am not spending a lot of downtime, I try to make it everytime.


   
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Awesome Autarch






San Diego, California

Thanks for the feedback!

Yeah, our tables are very good, if I do say so myself. We take pride in making a great looking battlefield for you guys to play on.

Check out Comikaze pictures for examples.

But, I see what you're saying. With top notch presentation and a smooth, professional organizational structure, it would be appealing to someone who wants the competitive itch scratched, but is too busy for a 2 day event.

That was what we were thinking, too.

   
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Angry Blood Angel Assault marine





Walnut Creek, CA

You know I'll be there! Can't wait for more details.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





Pasadena

I would be very interested in attending this type of event Reece. Especially if you can hold them multiple months in multiple areas of California, depending on Team Zero Comps other obligations of course. In Dis' original post I am one of those people he is talking about. I had to reconsider attending Comikaze at the last minute because of the change in scheduling. Two days of 8:00/8:30am until 7:00pm is too much time for me to be away from my wife and 9 month old son.

The idea of the events being qualifiers for events like the BAO is neat too. I am definitely trying to work out attending this years BAO depending on when you hold it, and 1 day events would be easier for me to travel to with my family since we would have the second day to do things together.

Great idea.

I personally hate 1500 points but if you want 5 rounds in 1 day that is really the only conceivable way to do it. 4 rounds at 1750-2k with a limited number of entrants would be better imo.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Reecius wrote:Thanks for the feedback!

Yeah, our tables are very good, if I do say so myself. We take pride in making a great looking battlefield for you guys to play on.

Check out Comikaze pictures for examples.


But, I see what you're saying. With top notch presentation and a smooth, professional organizational structure, it would be appealing to someone who wants the competitive itch scratched, but is too busy for a 2 day event.

That was what we were thinking, too.


I've seen the pics from Comikaze and I played at the BAO this year and I must say they are some of the best tournament tables around. I am used to playing on superb tables since I play at GE in Pasadena on a monthly (or nearly) basis for tournaments and Dis/Reecius build excellent terrain and tables.

*multiple edits for epic grammatical failure

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2011/11/20 20:50:32


Overwatch.
Capture and Control

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Why can't GW just release a legitimate, well thought out, viable tournament format? It's not that hard and they could charge us $39.95 to buy it. Isn't that a win win? 
   
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Regular Dakkanaut




I have been run the Ironman series in Las Vegas for 6 years now. We have tried 5 games in a day and almost everyone agreed that it was too much. Four games seems to work out well for most players. I personally love the one day event part and have found that a good number of players will not go to 2 day tournaments. Basically if you are local then you want to spend some of the weekend doing other activities and if you are not a local then you either want to get on the road or have other things you want to check out. For me when I go to a con to play in a tournament I want to use the second day to check out other things at the con.

For the 2012 event we are playing 1750 with a 2 hour time limit. Last year we did 1500 with a one Hour and Forty Five min limit and while a good number of games finished it was one of the major complaints that we heard about the event. While there are a few people who play very quickly most people just felt that it was too rushed. (Personally I usually finish 2000 point games in about an hour and 15 min.)


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Awesome Autarch






San Diego, California

@OverwatchCNC
We hope you can make the BAO next year! It will be March 2-4, although the 40K champs will only be 3-4, the Saturday, Sunday.

And thanks, we appreciate the kind words. We work hard to make that terrain nice, and since BAO 2011, it has really improved.

@vhwolf
I agree with you on the logistics. The only sticking point we're having is that 4 games only allows for 16 players in a Swiss system. It is a catch 22 for us, and something we're trying to work around.

If we can fit in 5 rounds of play, that is 32 players, which is a healthy amount, and allows for more prize support, etc.

1500 points is the only logical choice for that points limit, but as Overwatch said, a lot of people don't like that points level (I do, I actually really like 1000pts games, myself).

We'll have to make a decision though, and test the waters.

   
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Judgemental Grey Knight Justicar





Lodi CA

Reece I'd be in for 1 day tournies as well as a couple of my buddies from the Stockton area.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/11/21 16:21:13


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Awesome Autarch






San Diego, California

Nice! That is good to know!

   
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[MOD]
Fixture of Dakka






San Jose, CA

I wouldn't attend a 1-day, 5-game tournament (at anything over 1k points, anyway). In my opinion, it's just too much 40k in a day, piled on top of a tight time limit - it'd stop being fun too quickly. 4 rounds @ 2 hours is my personal limit (and 2:15 is much preferred).

While I can finish 1500 pt games in 1:45 (barring matchups like my Tyranids vs. Yakface's Kan wall), it doesn't necessarily mean I enjoy doing so.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2011/11/21 23:53:12


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Fixture of Dakka





San Jose, CA

I like this idea. I'd be more up for 1-day events. Due to family and my own business, 2-day events are rather hard for me to do.


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Fixture of Dakka






Janthkin wrote:
While I can finish 1500 pt games in 1:45 (barring matchups like my Tyranids vs. Yakface's Kan wall), it doesn't necessarily mean I enjoy doing so.


Agree. 5 games in a day are reserved for games that can be finished quickly like deathwatch tourneys, 500-1000pt battles on 4x4s and bloodbowl.

The problem with 1 day tourneys is you have to consider travel time since I don't feel like a lot of people will stay overnight for a 1day event. In a two day event I can do a longer drive the morning of and the day after, but 12+ hours of gaming along with hours of driving is hard stuff. I did a 2 hour trip for a 1 day tourney and it almost killed me on the long ride home.

The event shouldn't be stressful. I think cramming too much in a short time makes it stressful. And slow/play vs rushed games compromise the integrity of the event and make people bitter... Bitter and stress are bad :(

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Longtime Dakkanaut





Pasadena

I think what you can really take away from this thread so far Reece is:

1. There is an interest in playing 1 day events
2. 4 rounds good 5 rounds not as good
3. There are (as always) people who think it is a bad idea.

I personally think 4 round 1750 or 5 round 1500 single day tournaments are intriguing, especially with a nice size prize pool and it would appear a lot of others feel that way too.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/11/22 03:53:03


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Why can't GW just release a legitimate, well thought out, viable tournament format? It's not that hard and they could charge us $39.95 to buy it. Isn't that a win win? 
   
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Longtime Dakkanaut






Equinox wrote:I love the idea of a single day event like what you are proposing. Personally, I find it much easier, and more preferable, to only blow a single day actually gaming. If that means I need to catch a red eye flight in/out, that is fine as I can still spend the majority of the next day with the kids.

Regarding the format, I am also a fan of 1500 points and <2 hours per round. As others have wrote, it will give that feel of getting a lot for your money.

Regarding the price point, I am cool with it if the quality is there and the event is well organized. If I am paying $50.00 to play on poorly constructed tables with minimal prize support and a lack of organization, I would never come back. If there are raffle prizes for just showing up, something fun to take away as a keep sake (dice, template, mug, etc...) and I am not spending a lot of downtime, I try to make it everytime.




I agree with the quality of the table. If you can not provide a professional looking table for people who are going to pay time and money for a tournament. Do not throw one.

@Reecius

I like the idea on the 1500 point tournament. I also think it is doable in 5 games as well. But as you already know you need to get your logistics down. Looking what you have done in the past I think you guys can pull it off.

Added: Recently, I brought this game table area out of storage to game at my LGS and decided to post this one up since I've stated in the past that I do run tournaments from time to time. All of my game tables are themed, kept cleaned as well as properly stored, and efficiently maintained to a professional level. The Criteria is the same as I paint, so I am hypercritical on other tournaments on what they considered a "good" game table to play. I do not mess around when I throw a tournament. It is done in the highest of quality so the visual aspects of a gaming table brings the best out of the players that I want to see in a tournament.

There are not many people that can pull off a tournament with quality pieces that I have on hand. But luckily for those who are trying to make this a business of this, I'm not interested in getting into this field again. I run small point level tournaments once to three times a year just for fun. They have prize support and most of the time, they are free.


[Thumb - tournament table.jpeg]

This message was edited 6 times. Last update was at 2011/11/22 04:43:56


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Deffinately going to favor certain armies heavily, but its not like IG and SW don't already win at higher points. The other issue is the burnout factor. I did a four round in one day fantasy thing at Baltimore rescently and I was brain fried. Granted Fantasy is a bit more complex than 40k, but still guys are going to be mind fried trying to cram in that much gaming into one day. You may not be getting people's A Games.
   
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Fixture of Dakka






Phazael wrote:Deffinately going to favor certain armies heavily, but its not like IG and SW don't already win at higher points.


Either you go with some armies do better at high points VS low points and accept the shift in the meta, or begin evaluating restricted force orgs for 1000 point games and be accused of comp.

I am unsure if people would rather less games at a more established point level than more games at a lower point level most people are not familiar with? I kinda feel like anything 1500 and under is seen as 'not a real tourney' as it is not normal values people play. Yes the game can be played but is it fair and designed for that level?

If you are going to claim GT status, I think you are almost forced to stick with normal GT pointvalues for valid comparison. (1850-2000 is what I think most events standardize on)

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Home Base: Waconia, MN (Minneapolis)

I disagree on the burnout on 4 games. It's more the amount of time that leads to burnout. Not so much the games. Shep's crew ran 4 game 1,500pt RTT's out of Aero Hobbies and I never noticed burn out or felt that way after 4 games. But we were only playing for less than 8 hours (close to 7) which is the same as a 3 game higher point RTT.

Sidenote but who do you see this format favoring?

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Banelord Titan Princeps of Khorne





St. Louis, MO

Hulksmash wrote:I disagree on the burnout on 4 games. It's more the amount of time that leads to burnout. Not so much the games. Shep's crew ran 4 game 1,500pt RTT's out of Aero Hobbies and I never noticed burn out or felt that way after 4 games. But we were only playing for less than 8 hours (close to 7) which is the same as a 3 game higher point RTT.

Sidenote but who do you see this format favoring?


I would have to agree with Hulksmash. Its the amount of time in the day that leads to the burnout. That's one advantage warmachine seems to have.

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