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Must be honest, before learning more about the game, I read alot about the World Eaters and other Khorne-oriented characters and organization, and when I bought the CSM Codex and compared the Zerkers to other units of both this codex and of other armies, I could only feel like... disappointed. What do you think about it? Are Khorne-oriented army disavantaged compared to other CSM and Daemons builds?

As far as I can tell they don't hold a candle to other CC specialist units. Is that because Khorne Beserkers or weak, or is it because other CC specialists are too powerful (though not actually over-powered)?

The CSM codex is a shambles.
That explains everything.

Khorne berserkers have solid stats, but they should probably only be about 18pts each... The extra WS is nice, but to really make best use of their 'furious charge' rule, you need a very expensive land raider to ensure you can drive up & assault all in one go.
Considering how crap the chaos marine 'dex is, I wouldn't call them a 'bad buy' though. It's unfeasable to try and play a competitive pure khorne army for sure! But a unit or two of 'zerkers providing support to beat the snot out of anything trying to take out your plague marines is definately handy!

Now Khornate daemon armies, there's a gak army! No shooting, no viable anti-tank (beyond an assault 1/12"/S7 shot & hitting tanks with your MC's), slow assault units without transports... Oh, and it all gets to deep strike in so it's forced to sit about for a whole turn before being able to do a damn thing!
At least the blessing of the blood god ability makes GK players weep! (untill they just dark ex it away...)

Because everyone does them. There are hardly any tzeetch or slaanesh players, and still less than khorne Nurgle players. Khorne, however, there are more of than at least both Slaanesh and Tzeetch combined.
Or at least those are my thoughts.

Khorne is sort of viable but it's hard to do a close combat army without much in the way of either assault vehicles or enough bodies to get to the enemy line like Orks.

Too many points for not enough power is the problem Berserkers suffer from. They only get access to one power weapon for the squad, which makes them quite a bit less scary to MEQs, and can't properly hold their own against hordes either. Sadly, it's them or Possessed Marines...

Not necessarily. Plague marines can sub for Berzerkers, and Noise marines can fight in CC if it's absolutely necessary. Possessed are just too unreliable.

What really bugs me isn't just the khorne cultist to be honest. It's the whole Chaos factions. I mean, what the hell? I did a such huge major part of the w40k fall down in shadow so easily? Now it's all about SM, SW, DA, BA, Necrons, GK and sometime DE and Orks. Where the hell is the importance Chaos once had? If I needed to illustrate a video to express my emotions toward what GW did with Chaos, here what it would be :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IVcEHQ5E2O4

And here's a picture that definitively express how the CSM should be in my opinion



I mean, look at that. Then look at the CSM codex. Does it give you the same feeling?

No but that's because your picture didn't come out right.

Khornate25 wrote:What really bugs me isn't just the khorne cultist to be honest. It's the whole Chaos factions. I mean, what the hell? I did a such huge major part of the w40k fall down in shadow so easily? Now it's all about SM, SW, DA, BA, Necrons, GK and sometime DE and Orks. Where the hell is the importance Chaos once had? If I needed to illustrate a video to express my emotions toward what GW did with Chaos, here what it would be :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IVcEHQ5E2O4

And here's a picture that definitively express how the CSM should be in my opinion



I mean, look at that. Then look at the CSM codex. Does it give you the same feeling?

You've got to copy the image location first. Also, it's good to rehost so you don't leech bandwidth. Here's the same image, I just reuploaded it to imgur:


Chaos have gotten toned down an awful lot, and a lot of that is due to their lousy codex that came out during a very brief and very stupid period where they tried to simplify everything too much. GW is returning into the "Chaos is the biggest threat" direction again with 6th edition though, if rumors (and trends with the Necrons) are to be true.

I have to agree that Chaos used to actually scare me...but now, as a tau player even, they're just...meh. They don't really do a whole lot and all I see are the exact same armies over and over because none of the other units seem to be viable. I mean yea they all have their pluses but literally I see the same lists every time...lots of nurgle and a khorne squad in a LR. and my Thunder termies beat that any day. Hell if you stick em in a land raider my broadsides beat that any day...

What I would love to see is something like:
Khorne Bezerkers be more like death co

Thousand Sons to have libby dreads

Nurgle I think is pretty solid for the most part...
but slaneesh
oh man, IDK how to improve slaneesh...it just...I mean a lot of templates is cool but sonic weapons just seem so...dumb to me

dbsamurai wrote:
oh man, IDK how to improve slaneesh...it just...I mean a lot of templates is cool but sonic weapons just seem so...dumb to me

They probably would seem a lot dumber to you if you saw they used to be guitars with bolter barrels on them. Those models were awesome.

I play a Khorne army very well, it can be very nasty in CC. I find it more annoying that Bezerkers themselfs only get a plasma pistol upgrade thats worth a damn. I suppliment my army with CSM's, Raptors, Oblit's and even Predator tanks. Rhino's are a must, as I do not use Bikes as I need more models say 6 more for a 10-man squad. I like my Khorne based Brass Scorpion/Defiler very much but it normally dies turn 2-3. I don't use demons much except the summond Lesser and Greater demons. I love my Demon Prince when I use him but prefere my Chaos Lord in termie armor, MoK, and Deamon Sword +2d6 att as he leads my Bezerkers very well and pays for his points by turn 3. As for other Chaos forces I like Plague Marines and 1,000 Sons rock, I just do not use Noise Marines I find them usless. Choosen are vets but need to be updated pt wise as well as better equipment, Dreads are a total waste in pts for me because of Insaine thing, Inever use them unless its Planet Strike or Apoc games.

dbsamurai wrote:oh man, IDK how to improve slaneesh...it just...I mean a lot of templates is cool but sonic weapons just seem so...dumb to me

Giving them Sonic Blasters as standard would be a good start. 25 points for a Noise Marine kitted out the way he should be is far too pricey.

Chaos definately needs to be top priority for GW. CSM have fallen on hard times and are too costly to field enough viable variations. As many people seem to agree, they seem to run into nearly identical builds constantly and CSM victories are getting harder to come by. In addition, Daemons could use some loving, as well. Maybe its time to pull out some of that old lore laying around in their vaults and give us some new Chaos Gods to work with. They may not be equal to one of the Four in strength or power, but could throw some needed changes into the mix for players to work with. Heck, bring back Beastmen to 40k! At least this might give players some options to change up their strats somewhat. I remember when I could field squads of lasgun wielding Beastmen as part of my Imperial Guard, for Throne's sake!

I think there is a difference between being 'passionate' about something, and being 'especially good' at it.

The fluff implies that Khorn worshippers are extremely 'passionate' about close combat. Obviously that might give them some edge over less passionate troops and unarmed civilians. But it doesn't really imply that they are 'especially skilled' at it when compared to the dedicated melee troops of other races.

It is possible that the berserker's enthusiasm and recklessness might be enough to catch more skilled fighters by surprise and overwhelm them. Rules like FC reflect this quite well. But I don't think that being a Khorn worshipper automatically entitles them to any significant skill bonuses.

it's not that I want them to be OP in regard to CC, it's just that I want them to stop sucking at it Seriously, they could at leasdt be competitive about it.