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Each are about the same in points ~ 70 points each.

Point for point which do you think is more durable? A big gunz battery or a Deff kopta?

Durable? Big gunz battery - More wounds, sits at the back and tends not to be a target. Deff koptas are often the only target in range in the first turn, so get allot of punishment, but by the time they can be shot at there job should be done.

Better? Depends on what roll you want to fill.

Paul wrote:Durable? Big gunz battery - More wounds, sits at the back and tends not to be a target. Deff koptas are often the only target in range in the first turn, so get allot of punishment, but by the time they can be shot at there job should be done.

Better? Depends on what roll you want to fill.

This. They both perform very different rolls. Buzzsaw TL Rokkit kopters make great Alpha Strike units, and dying is often just part of what they do.

The buzzsaw kopta really doesn't hold a straw against 3 kannons with BS3 and potential rerolls. More utility, more survivability and more damage potential than a kopta. If you really want to, you are even be able to alpha-strike with them, by deploying the kannons right on the edge of your deployment zone you can shoot far into the enemy's territory with three "twin-linked" S8 BS3 shots. That should be much better than a single twin-linked BS2 shot and 3 S7 CC attacks. If you stretch out the gretchin into terrain, they will even get cover from any retaliation.

There really is no reason to ever leave our heavy support slots empty. Even if you don't need/want battlewagons or kanz, deff dreads, kannons and boomwagons are much too awesome to skip them.

Jidmah wrote:The buzzsaw kopta really doesn't hold a straw against 3 kannons with BS3 and potential rerolls. More utility, more survivability and more damage potential than a kopta. If you really want to, you are even be able to alpha-strike with them, by deploying the kannons right on the edge of your deployment zone you can shoot far into the enemy's territory with three "twin-linked" S8 BS3 shots. That should be much better than a single twin-linked BS2 shot and 3 S7 CC attacks that automatically hit on the back armour first turn, or can outflank added flexibility, and if an opponent under estimates them, can tarpit and trash tranports like there's no tomorrow. If you stretch out the gretchin into terrain, they will even get cover from any retaliation.

There really is no reason to ever leave our heavy support slots empty. Even if you don't need/want battlewagons or kanz, deff dreads, kannons and boomwagons are much too awesome to skip them.

fix'd

Yeah, "fix'd" is not an argument. Please don't mess up my text unless something is actually broken. That's bad style.

It only automatically hits if you can get there. A simple bubble wrap, enemy scouting units, servo-skulls or other shenanigans will ruin that plan easily. That, and not winning the roll for first turn.

You don't need to outflank if you have 36" range weapons that can reach most of the table in the first place.

"If your opponent underestimates them" is equivalent to "If your opponent only owns black reach marines". A good tactic should work against good opponents, if in doubt check the "dirtiest GK tactic ever" thread. You can beat an opponent who has no idea what your units do with about anything. If your opponent doesn't underestimate your deff kopta, it is dead within one turn, and you have no guarantee of actually destroying a vehicle, even with S7 auto-hits against AV10.

Anything that could be tarpitted by a deffkopta can also be blown to smithereens by three small blasts, transports will much more likely die to three S8 shots than to a kopta charging a moving vehicle. Kannons are also much more likely to survive turn one, due to more wounds and being in cover.

In a small points game where most armour is low and FOC not full i'd say the Kannons.

But as points and FOC slots get stretched, the heavy support options soon get a lot of competition. You are probably better off using the HS slots for Kans/wagons and buying the Deffkoptas with the not so needed FA slots.

Big guns are great though they are quite negative for an ork army: they will not suit everyone's style.
Koptas are nice, fun and fairly effective unit.

FoC concerns are interesting as I would go for rocket buggies and battlewagons above the two choices for most army lists, let's face it you do not have time for green horde in tournaments.

I use a shooty ork list where big guns are amazing, I sometimes also include koptas as the only fast option that fits in and the only unit that fits the list which is not bad at antitank.

I appreciate the discussion! I like hearing everyone's thoughts on the Bug Guns - theyre a unit I have been wanting to use for a long time now.