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Hi dakka,


By now, you will have noticed most of the newcron units one would like to include in an army are fairly, if not excessively expensive. Also, most of our units, even considering the synergy in the codex, are made to fill out only one role (anti tank, anti infantry, whatever) but exept for anti infantry those units dont do their jobs EXTREMELY well (as opposed to, say, grey knights, who mostly exel in hand to hand anti infantry but do that so well one can actually bet everything on that).

This is not such a problem at 1500+ points because many combos are available and enable us to make up for units' weaknesses or to create units extremely efficient for the role they are intended to play.

What of 1k points? With troops and the overlord out of the way (generally 150+150+150 average) that leaves us with 500 points to work with and handle tanks+cc units+long range shooting etc etc

Considering what has been said at the beginning of this post, it seems difficult to create a list that will handle mech lists/horde lists/pure elite cc lists/long range shooting lists (considering the list has to be able to handle ANY of those three, being theoretically a take all comers list)

What are the no brainers here ?



I will add a little difficulty for the more imaginative and experienced players out there : is this possible without including THE no brainer of the codex (which I personally do not like, even though I do see the efficiency of the unit, I just dont like them, it's as simple and stupid as that. Even the most beautiful models ever made by GW will not change that) : the wraiths. Also, is it possible without going mech (mech is for f******)


You may of course post lists, but the thread is more directed at underlining the strengths of units that would be particularly efficient PARTICULARLY in 1000points games rather than in larger games.

For example, there has been a large discussion about the lychguard in another thread I started, and everyone seems to be afraid that however you bring them in, they WILL have to withstand a turn of enemy shooting. This is obviously much less of a problem against a 1000 points army than it is against 2000. (of course that's just an example because they still have the points cost problem and it seems hard to make sure they will make up for their cost, but it was just to show 1000 points makes you take other points of view)


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So it's impossible?

Struggling myself with 1000 points atm. I have been kicking around a mech list, with a few scarab bases.

If you are looking for multipurpose units, the scarabs have 1 major use (AT), but they are also good for tarpitting when necessary.

Most people choose Eldritch lances for AT. I have been messing around with Voltaic Staffs, which are fun for AT and for anti infantry. They are short range, (like a melta), but are pretty reliable to eff a vehicle up when you shoot them (like a melta). In fact, you have about a 40% chance to get a pen with the voltaic staff on ANY vehicle. And you will likely get 1-3 glances as well. The melta has a 44% chance to pen AV 10 between 6.001 and 12 inches. 33% for AV 11, etc, and don't get any incidental glances. Even within 6", the melta gun is just .3% more likely to pen a landraider than the staff is, though the range on the staff is up to the full 12 inches. Where the melta has the advantage of AP 1, the staff has the advantage of additional glances. Against infantry, the melta gun is good for high T and well armored targets, but can only hit once. The Staff is str 5, and hits 4 times. The ap - leaves something to be desired, but most models that don't have particularly good armor find a way to be in cover in any case. If you like the Tesla carbines, then this staff is more of the same (though closer range).

There is some debate on how the Haywire effect is applied in the staff. Most of the people I play with have just assumed it was like the haywire blaster in DE codex, and you attack as normal, then apply a haywire grenade effect. Some groups will argue that it isn't the same thing, and the haywire effect completely replaces the normal penetration roll, and then since the weapon is ap -, every result on the damage chart is at -1. If that is the case for your meta, then, the lance is likely going to just be a better choice. I do enjoy new codex's without an FAQ. Additionally, from the way these entries are written, it could be possible that Haywire, Quake, and possibly even Arc will be universal special weapon types (like melta and lance) in 6e, and there could be some clarification there.

Tesla Destructors are pretty nice in low point games. Just rolling things out, I have been getting 6+ hits most of the time (statistical average is 5.333.) Str 7 usually means wounding on a 2+ (and can nuke FNP on most DE), but any and all armor is applied. It is good at whittling down space marines, and never has to deal with the fickle scatter die. You can turn it against low armor vehicles as well, and can lock them down and let scarabs catch up, for example. There is some small chance that the destructor can kill vehicles, but the ap - is a pretty beastly flaw in that regard. Even so, if you can catch an AV 10 facing of a vehicle with the gun, you can average about 2.66 pens, which will wreck the vehicle about 40% of the time.

I hope these help your plight. If you find any low point tricks, be sure to let everyone know.

Warriors and Scarabs are a good start.

Warriors are Anti-Mech/Horde and Scarabs are good at trumping armor. For anti-assault I suggest you invest in Crypteks. Honestly, only thing you really will have issue with are Assaulty Armies with good armor saves ie Marine Armies.

1000 points is really tough to create a TAC list for Necrons. Just a first thought here, with nothing original at all about it. Anti-mech shouldn't be a problem here. And the single Tomb Blade is just because I had 22 points left. This list clocks in at 998.

8x Warriors
1x Harbinger of Destruction
--Eldritch Lance
--Solar Pulse
1x Harbinger of Destruction
--Eldritch Lance
1x Ghost Ark

8x Warriors
1x Harbinger of Destruction
--Eldritch Lance
--Solar Pulse
1x Harbinger of Destruction
--Eldritch Lance
1x Ghost Ark

1x Tomb Blade

1x Overlord
--Warscythe
1x Catacomb Command Barge

1x Overlord
--Warscythe
1x Catacomb Command Barge

I did see the potential in voltaic staffs, and your mathhammer confirms my thoughts. However, as you underlined, ap- is a problembut the range is even more so, which is the reason for which people will probably favour the lances (its quite sad that we have to rely so much on str8 ap2, compared to meltas or even lascannons, I mean what happens when you encounter a friggin land raider and next to nothing in the codex enables you to penetrate it)

Not a fan of the tesla, but havent tested it yet..

Totally agree on the scarabs obviously.



What I have in mind right now is a solid base of 20 immortals + 2 destruction crypteks and 5-10 deathmarks with a despair cryptek and VoD (just an awesome combo btw). Will be just OP against meq AND horde if v6 rapid fire rumors are true. However that does not solve the CC and anti tank issues really even though at 1000 points the 20 gauss (40 rapide fire 24inch in v6 maybe) and two lances should do the job. I wont do it as I said in the OP, but add some wraiths and this list should be pretty balanced and pack some punch

A cryptek w/ Vod 5-6 lychguard and the orb overlord might make a great deathstar in 1k points also, eager to try it out even if it seems kinda "nooby"


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azazel the cat wrote:1000 points is really tough to create a TAC list for Necrons. Just a first thought here, with nothing original at all about it. Anti-mech shouldn't be a problem here. And the single Tomb Blade is just because I had 22 points left. This list clocks in at 998.

8x Warriors
1x Harbinger of Destruction
--Eldritch Lance
--Solar Pulse
1x Harbinger of Destruction
--Eldritch Lance
1x Ghost Ark

8x Warriors
1x Harbinger of Destruction
--Eldritch Lance
--Solar Pulse
1x Harbinger of Destruction
--Eldritch Lance
1x Ghost Ark

1x Tomb Blade

1x Overlord
--Warscythe
1x Catacomb Command Barge

1x Overlord
--Warscythe
1x Catacomb Command Barge

Good list I think, cant really do MUCH better at 1k points but (no disrespect) two overlords at 1k points is just lame, and non fluffy. Also I hope they will faq that "two crypteks per squad" thing it's just ugly. Obviously a pretty good list even if it lacks character and anti CC


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BeefCakeSoup wrote:Warriors and Scarabs are a good start.

Warriors are Anti-Mech/Horde and Scarabs are good at trumping armor. For anti-assault I suggest you invest in Crypteks. Honestly, only thing you really will have issue with are Assaulty Armies with good armor saves ie Marine Armies.

Yeah but since one never encounters marine lists this isnt really a problem. Still, agree with the scarabs but about the warriors : not counting the fact they unlock the ghost ark, arent 10 immortals better than 13 warriors? Same points value, but exchange +1 strength +1 armour save on 10 models to gain 3? Not really worth it imho. Still, the ghost ark does make it worthwhile but Im trying to go footsloggers personnally.

How about:

Overlord with Warscythe-100
Royal Court-HoD Cryptek w Solar Pulse-55

Immortals (10) w Tesla-170
Immortals (10) w Tesla-170
Immortals (5) w Tesla-85

Wraiths (5) w 3 whip coils-205
Scarabs (7)-105
Scarabs (7)-105

Total: 995

It's not the most perfect list of all time but it is 1000 points. This has a good mix of anti infantry and anti tank. the Pulse gives the army 1 turn of protection. Turn 2 assaults need to be launched to crack tanks.

JGrand wrote:How about:

Overlord with Warscythe-100
Royal Court-HoD Cryptek w Solar Pulse-55

Immortals (10) w Tesla-170
Immortals (10) w Tesla-170
Immortals (5) w Tesla-85

Wraiths (5) w 3 whip coils-205
Scarabs (7)-105
Scarabs (7)-105

Total: 995

It's not the most perfect list of all time but it is 1000 points. This has a good mix of anti infantry and anti tank. the Pulse gives the army 1 turn of protection. Turn 2 assaults need to be launched to crack tanks.

I think this could be optimised by dropping 2 wraiths and getting another cryptek + getting gauss on the larger squad of immortals + phaeron for the lord + maybe finding a few points for an orb.

That would make a pretty nice list, just a pity wraiths seem nearly unavoidable

Destroyer lords are my go-to HQ for smaller games.

Destroyer lord
6 wraiths
10 scarabs
6 spyders
2x5 warriors
1x5 immortals with tesla

So the plan is to farm scarabs at 6/turn, while still having 18 mc wounds and a rock hard jump pack infantry squad. The warriors and immortals provide covering fire but mainly go for objectives.

Other than the 3 troop units, everything in the list can kill any other model in the game, and the scarabs and wraiths move about very quickly to boot.

I think this could be optimised by dropping 2 wraiths and getting another cryptek + getting gauss on the larger squad of immortals + phaeron for the lord + maybe finding a few points for an orb.

That would make a pretty nice list, just a pity wraiths seem nearly unavoidable

But why the need for another Cryptek? The lance is nice, but most of the time the Tesla Immortals will be shooting infantry. I'm also not a huge fan of Gauss, Phaeron, or the Orb. Gauss is only better against tanks or 4+ save or worse units outside cover. Most of the time Tesla is producing a lot more hits. The Orb is too many points for a small amount of survivability added. I guess it would give the more of a purpose but at the same time it's just not worth it. Dropping 50 points worth of actually good things isn't worth making a mediocre unit slightly more useful. Dropping the Wraiths is just bad for business.

Destroyer lords are my go-to HQ for smaller games.

I like the idea of a Destroyer Lord, and am in the process of testing one in my 2k army. The issue I have is that the D-Lord doesn't allow a Court. That isn't a big problem when the D-Lord is a second HQ choice, but the HoD Cryptek with Solar Pulse is too much of an auto include to pass up. Denying an alpha strike is incredible and should be in every Necron list.

Two words, Illuminor Szeras.

His "force multiplier" mechanic is more pronounced at lower point levels, and he his relatively inexpensive himself.

My 1k is looking something like this:

100 Illuminor Szeras
150 Lord w/Phaeron/Res Orb/WS
260 20 Warriors
30-60 Court Support

180 5 Warriors/GA

280 to 250 points of anti-tank (probably and A-Barge or two, maybe HD's been playing around with different combos here).

26 (20warriors+3Overlord+2IS+1Court) 4T 4+/4+CS/RP 4+ wounds are nigh impenetrable at 1000 points. Even more so if you get lucky and get 5T.

A lot of people will counter with OMG Good luck when you get swept! I've yet to actually have that happen.

JGrand wrote:

I think this could be optimised by dropping 2 wraiths and getting another cryptek + getting gauss on the larger squad of immortals + phaeron for the lord + maybe finding a few points for an orb.

That would make a pretty nice list, just a pity wraiths seem nearly unavoidable

But why the need for another Cryptek? The lance is nice, but most of the time the Tesla Immortals will be shooting infantry. I'm also not a huge fan of Gauss, Phaeron, or the Orb. Gauss is only better against tanks or 4+ save or worse units outside cover. Most of the time Tesla is producing a lot more hits. The Orb is too many points for a small amount of survivability added. I guess it would give the more of a purpose but at the same time it's just not worth it. Dropping 50 points worth of actually good things isn't worth making a mediocre unit slightly more useful. Dropping the Wraiths is just bad for business.

Destroyer lords are my go-to HQ for smaller games.

I like the idea of a Destroyer Lord, and am in the process of testing one in my 2k army. The issue I have is that the D-Lord doesn't allow a Court. That isn't a big problem when the D-Lord is a second HQ choice, but the HoD Cryptek with Solar Pulse is too much of an auto include to pass up. Denying an alpha strike is incredible and should be in every Necron list.

Of course this was aimed at creating a gauss immortal unit w/ phaeron and the lance mainly for at if needed, i just find it to be quite punchy and resilient a unit. I think you're overestimating tesla, even though the combo with the scarabs is good, but then again if you use the scarabs to make the tesla more efficient you lack at and if you dont, well tesla kinda sucks. Moreover, come 6ed and you'll be wishing your immortals were given gauss in the first place

Of course this was aimed at creating a gauss immortal unit w/ phaeron and the lance mainly for at if needed, i just find it to be quite punchy and resilient a unit.

Totally understand the idea. However, Gauss isn't THAT great versus tanks. You will get one Glance at 24" and 2 at 12". Meh. Tesla will average about the same on AV 11 and under.

I think you're overestimating tesla, even though the combo with the scarabs is good, but then again if you use the scarabs to make the tesla more efficient you lack at and if you dont, well tesla kinda sucks.

Necrons are more akin to Eldar or Dark Eldar in that their units are more specialized. It's just not worth it to me to pump lots of extra points into a unit just for the sake of making them mediocre at tank cracking. You are talking about 20 points for Phaeron and an additional 35 for the HoD. Scarabs and Wraiths can crack tanks well enough that Immortals can focus on anti infantry.

As for overestimating Tesla, I believe that they are a better choice. Gauss only really works well with the Phaeron Lord attached. Even then, they are still going to average less hits at 24". Without the Phaeron Lord, Gauss have to either sacrifice movement (bad) or get close (very bad).

Moreover, come 6ed and you'll be wishing your immortals were given gauss in the first place

Complete hearsay and conjecture at this point. There is no definitive change that we know is coming.

I am the opposite in regards to overlords with courts. They get better in big games.

Consider, some of the overlords mentioned are 150 points. Then 55 points are spent on a solar pulse guy. So you are up to 205 points for 1 turn of night fighting. Your overlord at 150 isnt that great, so for 205 you may as well spring for a real HQ, the Stormlord. You now have an HQ with night fighting, but he is more survivable and his lightning strikes are only 20 points more.

At 1k points, efficient units are king. IE, 15 missile launchers fit in 1k points for wolves just as easy as they do in 2k points. Meanwhile, force multiplier units fit in much harder in small games. For example, the solar pulse. At 2k points, the solar pulse makes 2000 points of the enemy deal with nightfighting. At 1k points, you pay the same cost for your solar pulse, but it only hurts 1k points of the enemy.

A single giant close combat deathstar in 1k points could be completely unable to be destroyed by the enemy, while at 2k points the deathstar faces being shot at by all 2000 points of the enemy. For example, how would many of the listed Necron 1000 point armies here deal with Shrike infiltrating 10 THSS termies with fleet. This is easily do-able at 1k points, as scouts combo well with shrike. The 20 necron blocks can get assaulted turn 1, solar pulse is useless, and antitank units are useless.

"Complete hearsay and conjecture at this point. There is no definitive change that we know is coming."

Yeah well I'm still betting on it, it does seem kinda sure and after 10 years of playing 40k (on and off) I've always thought there was something wrong with the way rapid fire works, so the rumors, combined with the rapid fire deathmarks just make me believe very strongly this is happening. Deal with it now, or avoid it and deal with it later..Same goes for preferred enemy applying to shooting.

"A single giant close combat deathstar in 1k points could be completely unable to be destroyed by the enemy, while at 2k points the deathstar faces being shot at by all 2000 points of the enemy."

As you may have seen in the OP, I totally agree with this. Therefore, I consider lychguard w/ or without VoD to be pretty viable at 1k point. This and a vicious AT royal court + 2 squads of gauss immortals. Overlord joins whatever unit needs it most. I'm trying it, and I'm confident it's gonna give many players a headache

I am the opposite in regards to overlords with courts. They get better in big games.

Consider, some of the overlords mentioned are 150 points. Then 55 points are spent on a solar pulse guy. So you are up to 205 points for 1 turn of night fighting. Your overlord at 150 isnt that great, so for 205 you may as well spring for a real HQ, the Stormlord. You now have an HQ with night fighting, but he is more survivable and his lightning strikes are only 20 points more.

You have to take a HQ choice regardless. The generic Overlord is probably the easiest fit at 1k. Taking the Solar Pulse Cryptek is critical. For 55 points, you get a mobile AP 2 missile launcher to add to a squad (decent) and an item that buys things like Wraiths and Scarabs a turn to move up unmolested. I see no way to frame that as a bad deal.

At 1k points, efficient units are king. IE, 15 missile launchers fit in 1k points for wolves just as easy as they do in 2k points. Meanwhile, force multiplier units fit in much harder in small games. For example, the solar pulse. At 2k points, the solar pulse makes 2000 points of the enemy deal with nightfighting. At 1k points, you pay the same cost for your solar pulse, but it only hurts 1k points of the enemy.

But as you said, 15 missile launchers fit easily into a 1k force. Competent players will generally have at least two units of them at this level. Same with things live Ravagers. 3 can fit, two probably do at the minimum. Psyfleman are the same. You are able to stop the fire from all of these for one turn for a mere 55 points. That is a complete steal. The game is won and lost through deployment and movement. The Solar Pulse is a strong counter to range and alpha strike. Take it every time.

A single giant close combat deathstar in 1k points could be completely unable to be destroyed by the enemy, while at 2k points the deathstar faces being shot at by all 2000 points of the enemy. For example, how would many of the listed Necron 1000 point armies here deal with Shrike infiltrating 10 THSS termies with fleet. This is easily do-able at 1k points, as scouts combo well with shrike. The 20 necron blocks can get assaulted turn 1, solar pulse is useless, and antitank units are useless.

Arguing about balance in 1k games is pretty worthless. The game is best between 1500 and 2k because armies (at least the new codices) have the ability to deal with both tanks and hoard effectively if built correctly.

To counter, I would say that you can easily kite the Termies with Tesla Immortals and tie them up with Scarabs or Wraiths (if you use my 1k build). Or, just kill all the scouts and win every objective game because they have no Troops. But again, the game isn't balanced at 1k. I could take an all mech Eldar army with Star Cannon War Walkers and say that your termie build has no chance (which it wouldn't). It doesn't matter because these are extreme and unlikely situations in a points level that's predominantly played for fun and not in tournies.

To be fair, the shrike termies have a 16 to 21 inch threat range, and the scouts have a 19 to 24 inch threat, turn 1 after infiltrate. So no, I disagree your walkers and imortals will slow them. Also, said shrike army blocks your board edge if you reserve, so that wont work either.