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I want to see your thoughts on this move:

10 th/ss terminators
Libby w/ jump pack
Reclusiarch w/ jump pack
Priest w/ jump pack

T-T-T-T-R-L-P-T-T-T
-----------T-T-T

The 3 jumpers line up out front middle of the terminator line and barely in coherency with the terminators. During their move, they move .01" and stop. Now that they are out of coherency, they finish their move with an 11.99" jump to create a 9" conga line pointed at the charge target. The terminators then move 6" into coherency with the rearmost IC and when the frontmost IC charges, he slingshots the terminators into the combat. The net gain is an additional 6" charge.

----------R
----------L
----------P
T-T-T-T-T-T-T-T-T-T

I have read and reread the rules on movement, coherency, and ICs and I can find nothing in the rules that makes this an illegal move. What are your thoughts on this?

Regardless on whether or not an IC can move his full distance when leaving a unit (topic for another thread) you cannot have an IC leave and join the same unit in the movement phase.

You cannot move 12" as you never left the unit

Can we see some actual rules to back those statements up, perhaps?

You move at the speed of the slowest model while you stay with the unit.

BY moving 12" you have stated you are NOT staying with the unit, and must stay more than 2" away from it. OR you only get to move 6"

Page 48, ICs joining / leaving / moving.

You're not allowed to move, then stop, then re-move the unit. Since coherency is not determined until the end of your movement, you're still part of the unit.

I mean seriously, how many variations of fail on this do we have to suffer through?

I donot see a rule on movement that says you have to move the entire distance at once. According to your statement, after I move a model it is no longer movable during this turn. It is not touch move like chess -I can do any variation of moving at any time during the movement phase.

If what you say is true, then anyone that adjusts a model after moving it is cheating.

Just reread pg 48. Nowhere does it say I cannot leave a unit at the beginning of the movement phase and rejoin at the end.

You do not have to like the move, but unless you have a specific rule that prevents it, your opinion holds no more weight than mine.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
rigeld2, attempting to throw insults is juvenile.
What specific rules back your assumption? I need you tosource this as I cannot find a rule that says anything close to what you imply.

I am fine with being proven wrong - that is why I posted it here, but saying " 'cause I say so" and throwing insults adds nothing to the discussion.

You do not cheat to see if an IC is a part of the unit until the end of the movement phase. Therefor if they start in the unit they are in the unit until the end.

Actually, the section on movement states that the move is a series of smaller moves representing the total distance the unit can move in a phase. The rules even say it is small movements. PG11 undermovement distance.
In addition, PG 48 list no restrictions on leaving and joining a unit, it simply states that, if at the end of my movement phase I am within 2" of a unit, he is part of the unit.

Am I missing something?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

jbunny wrote:You do not cheat to see if an IC is a part of the unit until the end of the movement phase. Therefor if they start in the unit they are in the unit until the end.

Where does it say this in the rules? That is what I can't find. I need a page to reference, as all of the info I read says otherwise.

Twisted_Mister wrote:I donot see a rule on movement that says you have to move the entire distance at once. According to your statement, after I move a model it is no longer movable during this turn. It is not touch move like chess -I can do any variation of moving at any time during the movement phase.

If what you say is true, then anyone that adjusts a model after moving it is cheating.

Just reread pg 48. Nowhere does it say I cannot leave a unit at the beginning of the movement phase and rejoin at the end.

You do not have to like the move, but unless you have a specific rule that prevents it, your opinion holds no more weight than mine.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
rigeld2, attempting to throw insults is juvenile.
What specific rules back your assumption? I need you tosource this as I cannot find a rule that says anything close to what you imply.

I am fine with being proven wrong - that is why I posted it here, but saying " 'cause I say so" and throwing insults adds nothing to the discussion.

I apologize - not feeling well, short temper, and this slingshot thing being brought up once a week or so and I snapped.

I don't have my books, but there is a rule that says you're not allowed to go back and move units.

You do not determine if an IC is joined to a unit until after the unit(s) have moved. Since you cannot determine that the IC has left the unit, you cannot move faster than the slowest member of the unit.

Movement phase - once you finish moving a unit you may not go back and move it again

If you are measuring coherency you have, de facto, finished your move, so you cannot stop 2.01 inches out then move again.

Page 48 states you move at the speed of the slowest model when you are staying with the unit; as you never left it (you started and ended in coherency with the unit) you are bound to move only 6".

You can do the conga line charge you speak of, you it's just that must have started the turn not part of the unit.

The answer is with Sir_Prometheus.
I still connot find any rule that says I must move a model its full move at once. Again, the wording actually points out that the 6" move is a series of lesser moves. The IC rules on pg 48 clearly state that I may leave a unit simply by breaking coherency. It also states I may join a unit by being in coherency and declaring that I am joining the unit. Nowhere does it state that I must make a singular, continuous move for a model. From those rules it feels like I can do exactly as I had guessed - I see no rule to the contrary...

Page 11, before the heading "Movement Distance"

"Once you have started moving a unit, you must finish its move before you start to move another unit. You may not go back and change the move already made by a previous unit."

So the trick would be to move the terminators 6" which leaves the ICs out of coherency, then jumping them ahead to regain it. Once the terminators have all moved and the ics are out of coherency, they are no longer a member of the unit. When, at the end of the movement phase they are in coherency, they are once again part of the unit, true?

And again you still fail to see that beginning a Movement phase and ending a Movement phase with a unit means you never left the unit and thus were bound by moving at the speed of the slowest model in the unit.

You are trying to create a magical place in space and time where the IC have left the unit, but before rejoining it in which they are not bound by the rule of moving at the speed of the slowest model. That magical place does not exist.

Twisted_Mister wrote:So the trick would be to move the terminators 6" which leaves the ICs out of coherency, then jumping them ahead to regain it. Once the terminators have all moved and the ics are out of coherency, they are no longer a member of the unit. When, at the end of the movement phase they are in coherency, they are once again part of the unit, true?

The ICs are part of the unit. Moving the terminators away then finishing the move, means that the unit has finished movement. The ICs, being part of that unit, are counted as moved. No, they cannot leapfrog over the terminators.

Twisted_Mister wrote:So the trick would be to move the terminators 6" which leaves the ICs out of coherency, then jumping them ahead to regain it. Once the terminators have all moved and the ics are out of coherency, they are no longer a member of the unit. When, at the end of the movement phase they are in coherency, they are once again part of the unit, true?

In addition, you do not check coherency until the end of the Movement phase which determines whether or not the IC have left or joined a unit. So when moving your Terminators up 6", you are not stopping and measuring to see if the IC are out of coherency and then determining they are no longer part of the unit and thus able to move their full jump pack distance. They are still part of the Terminator unit until the end of the Movement phase, at which time you measure for coherency and it is determined they are no longer joined to the unit.

That strikes me as the sort of thing that could technically work, but very people (TO's included) are going to let you do. Myself as well, for that matter.

It also occurs to me that much like moving and heavy weapons, moving any part of the units counts as moving every part. So you move the terminators, make it so ICs are no longer in coherency, fine, but the ICs are already in the process of moving at that point. You can move them where you want at that point, but you can't break them off and rejoin them as part of the same movement.

Lastly, it is strongly implied that joining or leaving a unit only occurs at the end of the phase. It says so clearly for joining, but not for leaving. Anyway, If you started in the unit, I'm not sure you can use your 12" at all.

If you want to pull these sort of shenanigans, I really think you need to start the ICs from outside the unit at the beginning of the turn.

Only way you could do this is with two unit of terminators and two HQ ... HQ A would leave unit A and join Unit B. HQ B would leave unit B and join unit A. This is the only way that you can get round the limitation that HQ must move at the same speed as the unit they are joined to.

However none of this really works as you don't join or leave a unit till the end of the movement phase. There for a IC on a bike joined to a SnP unit may only move away at speed of 2D6 as they are joined to the unit till the end of the phase, and must move at the speed of the slowest model.

I don't see the point of this anyway... How do you plan on getting the terminators into combat when the combat is > 6" away?

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