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I guess my question is about what you guys think regarding a Cryptek with an abyssal staff attached to a deathmark unit vs a marked unit? Does the ap1 template now wound on 2+ regardless of the LD it's normally checked against?

I'd say yes as it doesn't seem to break any of the rules ... but FAQ may well go the other way.

Very nice combo! Good find!

I wouldn't think it would, honestly, since the deathmark ability says it works for deathmark units and even though the cryptek is in the unit and part of the unit, it's not a deathmark. Otherwise, any other character attached to a deathmark unit (yes I know crypteks are not IC) would have the same benefit since attached characters are considered part of the unit.

I'd have to double check the codex but if the deathmark ability references toughness then it wouldn't work anyway since the staff doesn't wound vs. toughness.

But maybe, I mean I could see it being either way really.

Kevin949 wrote:I wouldn't think it would, honestly, since the deathmark ability says it works for deathmark units and even though the cryptek is in the unit and part of the unit, it's not a deathmark. Otherwise, any other character attached to a deathmark unit (yes I know crypteks are not IC) would have the same benefit since attached characters are considered part of the unit.

I'd have to double check the codex but if the deathmark ability references toughness then it wouldn't work anyway since the staff doesn't wound vs. toughness.

But maybe, I mean I could see it being either way really.

They should work together but may be FAQ not to ... as it seems some people don't know the rules ...

Abyssal staff Template 8 Assault 1, Shroud of Despair
Shroud of Despair: To Wound rolls from the abyssal staff's
shooting attacks are made against the target's Leadership,
rather than Toughness. The abyssal staff's shooting attack has
no effect against vehicles.

Hunters from Hyperspace: When a Deathmark unit
deploys, choose a non-vehicle enemy unit on the battlefield
(even a unit in a transport) to be their prey- place a
counter next to the chosen unit to serve as a reminder Any
Deathmark unit that shoots at, or strikes blows against a unit
marked in this fashion will score a Wound on a roll of 2+

To be honest i would be more intrested in using this and a necron Lord with the gauntlet of fire. Flamer and rerolling hits and wounds in close combat ^__^ (all of them wounding the target units on a 2+) ... or may be a Cryptek with a Termorstave

If this is a yes then Death marks will become the most used elites in the dex

The only bummer about the combo mentioned in OP is that they can't DS.

Kevin949 wrote:Wait, doesn't the GoF only reroll hits and wounds in CC?

The only bummer about the combo mentioned in OP is that they can't DS.

Spotted that my post may cause confusion already corrected the GoF entry.

Thing is the unit has Deep strike and the wording for the court is near identical to wolfguard ... and when joined to scouts they can use their rules so unless GW has a massive brain fart the court should work in the same way.

Tri wrote:

Kevin949 wrote:Wait, doesn't the GoF only reroll hits and wounds in CC?

The only bummer about the combo mentioned in OP is that they can't DS.

Spotted that my post may cause confusion already corrected the GoF entry.

Thing is the unit has Deep strike and the wording for the court is near identical to wolfguard ... and when joined to scouts they can use their rules so unless GW has a massive brain fart the court should work in the same way.

Well if it ends up that they get DS then awesome. Though until it's a bit more clear (since DS isn't a conferable rule) I'd still rule that they can't if a cryptek is joined. Yes, it would be to my detriment but it is, in my opinion, the fairest way to do it for now.

Kevin949 wrote:

Tri wrote:

Kevin949 wrote:Wait, doesn't the GoF only reroll hits and wounds in CC?

The only bummer about the combo mentioned in OP is that they can't DS.

Spotted that my post may cause confusion already corrected the GoF entry.

Thing is the unit has Deep strike and the wording for the court is near identical to wolfguard ... and when joined to scouts they can use their rules so unless GW has a massive brain fart the court should work in the same way.

Well if it ends up that they get DS then awesome. Though until it's a bit more clear (since DS isn't a conferable rule) I'd still rule that they can't if a cryptek is joined. Yes, it would be to my detriment but it is, in my opinion, the fairest way to do it for now.

Fair enough ... though just so you know ...

Space_Wolves_Version_1_1.pdf wrote:Q. Can a Wolf Scout Pack with a Wolf Guard Pack Leader
assigned to it deploy as Infiltrators, make a move before
the game begins because of its Scouts special rule,
choose to outflank or use Behind Enemy Lines? (p86)
A. Yes, to all of the above, because the Wolf Guard Pack
Leader is not an Independent Character and therefore the
fact he does not have the Infiltrate or Scouts special rule
does not preclude the squad he has joined from using
those abilities.

Tri wrote:
Thing is the unit has Deep strike and the wording for the court is near identical to wolfguard ... and when joined to scouts they can use their rules so unless GW has a massive brain fart the court should work in the same way.

Unfortunately, until a FAQ or Errata is released, Crypteks being joined to Deathmarks definitely cannot Deep Strike.

Tri wrote:

Kevin949 wrote:

Tri wrote:

Kevin949 wrote:Wait, doesn't the GoF only reroll hits and wounds in CC?

The only bummer about the combo mentioned in OP is that they can't DS.

Spotted that my post may cause confusion already corrected the GoF entry.

Thing is the unit has Deep strike and the wording for the court is near identical to wolfguard ... and when joined to scouts they can use their rules so unless GW has a massive brain fart the court should work in the same way.

Well if it ends up that they get DS then awesome. Though until it's a bit more clear (since DS isn't a conferable rule) I'd still rule that they can't if a cryptek is joined. Yes, it would be to my detriment but it is, in my opinion, the fairest way to do it for now.

Fair enough ... though just so you know ...

Space_Wolves_Version_1_1.pdf wrote:Q. Can a Wolf Scout Pack with a Wolf Guard Pack Leader
assigned to it deploy as Infiltrators, make a move before
the game begins because of its Scouts special rule,
choose to outflank or use Behind Enemy Lines? (p86)
A. Yes, to all of the above, because the Wolf Guard Pack
Leader is not an Independent Character and therefore the
fact he does not have the Infiltrate or Scouts special rule
does not preclude the squad he has joined from using
those abilities.

Totally understand and agree with what you're saying but as is the standard saying here, you can't [shouldn't] use another codex's FAQ to answer a question about yours, even if they are practically identical. Also, this *is* imperium vs. xenos we're talking about here, so...ruling in favor of imperium wouldn't surprise me.

Of course, you could solve the deep striking problem by giving that same cryptek a veil of darkness.

It doesn't work that way though, since you use the veil of darkness instead of moving normally, it does not confer deep strike, you simply utilize the DS rules for your movement.

Admittedly true, though the veil does go a long way to mitigating the loss of the "vanilla" deep strike.

I suppose I should have been more specific. Thank you for correcting me.

Kevin949 wrote:Totally understand and agree with what you're saying but as is the standard saying here, you can't [shouldn't] use another codex's FAQ to answer a question about yours, even if they are practically identical.

I can't get behind that line of thinking at all. In fact GW has repeatedly, over the years, put broadly-applicable rulings in specific codex FAQs. For many years in 3rd ed the only place it was ruled that Skimmers Moving Fast applied to HtH attacks (which it did in 3rd and 4th edition) was in the Eldar FAQ. It didn't just apply to Eldar skimmers, it applied to all of them. GW has gotten a bit better about this nowadays with having better FAQ organization and a more comprehensive main rulebook FAQ, but there are still important rulings in individual codex FAQs which apply to others. For a key example, the ruling in the Blood Angels FAQ about at what point you measure to determine whether a unit is in range of the sang priest chalice to use its benefits (at the time the benefit is used), is very important for understanding how Tervigon radius benefits work for Tyranids.

In the specific case of the Deathmarks, I could see the 2+ wound go either way. I don't think they would be able to confer the DS rule on the Cryptek, though, as historically that's never worked. For example you've need to give an Eldar Autarch a set of Swooping Hawk Wings or a Warp Spider jump generator for him to be allowed to DS along with a unit of Hawks.

I would like to say that using the Autach is a bad example, since he is an IC. But I agree, the ruling could go either way. Yes he gets it (SW as a precedent) or no he does not (because they're xenos).

IMO, no he does not, because I've never seen GW allow a model without the ability to DS to DS along with a unit which has the rule; even SM.

Corollax wrote:Admittedly true, though the veil does go a long way to mitigating the loss of the "vanilla" deep strike.

I suppose I should have been more specific. Thank you for correcting me.

I see what you're getting at now, and ya I completely agree with what you said. Great idea man.

Thanks. It was just a stroke of luck that the both pieces of wargear came on the same type of Harbinger.

P.S.: I'm a girl!

40K Rulebook FAQ

Q: Can a unit Deep Strike if only some of the models in it have the deep strike special rule? (p95)
A: No.

So unless you can find something to give the Cryptek deep strike, the precedent set by the Space Wolves isn't going to matter. Especially as the Space Wolves only talk about Scout/Infiltrate.

Corollax wrote:
P.S.: I'm a girl!

Cue the flood of inappropriate PM's from lonely men!

LOL

The "ignore" function exists for a reason...

Corollax wrote:Thanks. It was just a stroke of luck that the both pieces of wargear came on the same type of Harbinger.

P.S.: I'm a girl!

My apologies then.

Quite alright.

Back to the question at hand, I can't help but think the two abilities are incompatible. If nothing else, one attacks toughness and the other attacks leadership.

Surely GW will errata this? (Whatever the RAW might say at the moment is an open question, of course.)

Chrysis wrote:40K Rulebook FAQ

Q: Can a unit Deep Strike if only some of the models in it have the deep strike special rule? (p95)
A: No.

So unless you can find something to give the Cryptek deep strike, the precedent set by the Space Wolves isn't going to matter. Especially as the Space Wolves only talk about Scout/Infiltrate.

... Fine for the moment the Rule book FAQ stops them deep striking ... but I wouldn't be surprised if this was overruled.