Is the Stormraven a flyer in apo?

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**Tarkand**

One of my friend is telling me that in WD #373 (the one about the blood angels), they made the Stormraven a flyer for apo....

That sounds a bit ridiculous to me, so I have to ask... is it true?

**Brother SRM**

What's ridiculous about that? It's been implied you should use Valkyries and the like as aircraft in Apocalypse if you want to, so why wouldn't you do the same for a Stormraven? That issue posted the whole codex page for the Stormraven, points and all, but was just one "chapter approved" stamp away from letting all Marine players use it. Besides, it's Apocalypse; it's not meant to be taken super competitively or seriously.

**Tarkand**

But is it merely implied or is it actually said? Is there a ruling?

My friend is being suspisciously evasive about the actual wording or showing me said article, which makes me doubtful.

As for why it's ridiculous...

Well, Flyers are extremely hard to take down without AA weaponry... and AA weaponry is STR7 usually, on account that it doesn't need to be more powerful because the great majority of flyer are 10/10/10... well, the Stormraven is 12/12/12. This make a huge difference to survivability has anybody who has had to use Loota to take down Stormraven will attest - S7 has a hard time with AV12.

**Joey**

You can use anything in apocalypse anyway so does it matter?
Hell you could use it with a CSM army.

**insaniak**

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/280663.page

Moving to YMDC.

**DeathReaper**

Tarkand wrote:But is it merely implied or is it actually said? Is there a ruling?

The ruling that the Stormraven is a flyer is in one of the Apoc books, Can not remember which off the top of my head though.

**nosferatu1001**

No, thats the ruling for a Valkyrie. SR dont appear in Apoc books, as they appeared after reloaded...

**BlapBlapBlap**

If in doubt, make your opponent show the article. If he refuses, he is probably cheating. If you think about AV compare it to a Thunderhawk. They are pretty much miniature verions of them, so the AV may be justified.

**Scott-S6**

Brother SRM wrote:What's ridiculous about that? It's been implied you should use Valkyries and the like as aircraft in Apocalypse if you want to

No, it's been explicitly stated that you should use Valks and Vends as aircraft in Apoc. Nothings been stated about the SR.

**DeathReaper**

Maybe it was White Dwarf I was thinking of, White Dwarf 374, thought it mentions them as flyers in Apoc.

**Thaanos**

On page 34 of White Dwarf 373 from Febuary 2011, there is an apoc formation that includes Stormravens and cargo. There is a box off to the side that says

You'll notice that we gave the Stormravens here the Flyers and Hover special rules. This is to represent their use in the larger battles represented using the Apocalypse scenario. If you plan on using Stormravens from Codex: Blood Angels in your games of Apocalypse then counting them as flyers is entirely appropriate.

It does not state that you must play them as flyers or as skimmers, but it does set precedent for if you wish to use them as flyers.

**dreadfury101**

take it to the supreme court!! they should rule on this

**Lobokai**

Thaanos wrote:On page 34 of White Dwarf 373 from Febuary 2011, there is an apoc formation that includes Stormravens and cargo. There is a box off to the side that says
You'll notice that we gave the Stormravens here the Flyers and Hover special rules. This is to represent their use in the larger battles represented using the Apocalypse scenario. If you plan on using Stormravens from Codex: Blood Angels in your games of Apocalypse then counting them as flyers is entirely appropriate.

It does not state that you must play them as flyers or as skimmers, but it does set precedent for if you wish to use them as flyers.

Ah, White Dwarf, creating problems and issues in each issue

**Saiisil**

Lobukia wrote:
Ah, White Dwarf, creating problems and issues in each issue

I actually wouldn't call that a problem or issue, especially considering the Valk/Ven were originally flyers before they appeared in the C:IG as skimmers, I would think it would be reasonable to consider in apoc games any skimmer that comes with the flyer base as flyers.

**CT GAMER**

Lobukia wrote:
Thaanos wrote:On page 34 of White Dwarf 373 from Febuary 2011, there is an apoc formation that includes Stormravens and cargo. There is a box off to the side that says
You'll notice that we gave the Stormravens here the Flyers and Hover special rules. This is to represent their use in the larger battles represented using the Apocalypse scenario. If you plan on using Stormravens from Codex: Blood Angels in your games of Apocalypse then counting them as flyers is entirely appropriate.

It does not state that you must play them as flyers or as skimmers, but it does set precedent for if you wish to use them as flyers.

Ah, White Dwarf, creating problems and issues in each issue

The problem is players that are trying to play APOC.with a competqtive mindset, which is clearly not what it was designed for.

Anything goes in Apoc. as long as you and opponent agree. You can even write your own formations, etc.

Arguments like this show me that the OP and his friend shouldn't be playing Apoc. to begin with...