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Collect a Dark Eldar army and was wondering if anyone had any advice on what tactics/units work well vs the new Necron army?

I have a friend whose buying an army for Christmas and it'd be nice to get a headsup before he's finished beating his ploughshare into a sword.

Razorwings and shredders see an increased utility versus scarabs. In my area scarab spam is seeing alot of use, as are Immortals (MEQs) and some discussion about taking more of the deathray mobiles. If your opponant is running around with one of those, just make sure your deployment is spread out a bit. Many of the tricks people are touting right now (making it nightfight for much of the game, scarabs) are of little provitive value against DE due to our NF ability and already terrible armor values.

Warriors are just as terrible as always in CC (worse actually with a 4+ save) so let your wyches blend them and send in your other targets to take out the ghost arks and units with crypteks in them to hamper the ressing.

Dark Eldar have very little to fear from any Necrons list not running the Stormlord. Here's Why:

-Poisoned attacks eat C'tan for breakfast
-Lances punch through quantum shielding easily, and put holes in monoliths
-We are fast enough to zip through the optimal killzone of Necron weapons
-We have Night fighting. Solar pulse is far from the scariest thing in the world.
-Wyches always sweep on a 2+
-Liquifier guns melt Scarabs, as do any of our other blasts.

In short, Dark Eldar are very good at killing Necrons.

Crazy_Carnifex wrote:
In short, Dark Eldar are very good at killing Necrons.

Comforting to know!

Yeah, between the ability of Dark Eldar to outmaneuver, poisoned weapons and lots of Lance weapons you shouldn't have much of a problem with the new Necrons.

I'd just spam ravagers and wyches... Their transports are relatively weak, and they crash and burn on immobilized results. Monoliths might be a problem, but no more than a land raider (if not a lot less. Lascannons are a terror to ravagers).

Warriors are weak, and wyches will rip them to shreds. Even kabalites can do well, maybe.

Trueborn units might be good. I run five trueborn wih two cannons and three carbines in a venom with two cannons and that really takes care of everything.

I think the only thing that really needs to be worried is when the Doom Scythes and Night Scythes come into play. Two fast vehicles that may have cruddy armor but have decent firepower.

Can't put much in here except that I agree with what has been said
The new Necrons should not be that hard to beat.

I have had a few battles against the new necrons and these are some things to keep in mind:

Those wraiths are nasty. Volume of str 8 or just as many shots as you can to make him fail saves. Those wraiths kill things in combat. As for the scarabs, not really scared of them, I run the grotesques with a heamy, with their str6 on the charge they will annihilate a full unit in one round of combat. As for the liths... just line any other av14 tank lance-food. I love the baron, and there is one guy I do not like, Nemesor Zanrek... taking away, FC, Hit and run, stealth... etc etc... from a unit is really nasty.

As always the way to beat crons is in the combat phase to sweep em. Just be careful with those fearless units. Other than that, stick to your guns and play smart, if you are a fan of night shields then you will love playing against an army that will have to get to within 18" to do any damage (for the most part).


Cheers!

In fact, the Monolith is now touchable by DE dark light shots. Poisoned weapons vs Ctan, Wyches vs Warriors or Immortals, lances vs quantum shield, NF vs Imotekh and solar pulse. Speed vs Necron killing zone.
It seems that DE have a perfect matchup vs Necrons. Other armies seem to have a harder time dealing with them.

I think I can agree with that assessment until we start looking at scarabs. While I will absolutely concede Dark Eldar are in one of the best situations for dealing with scarabs defensively, we just don't have much to kill them with. We possess very few template or blast weapons, and those few options we do have tend to suffer from split-target-priority syndrome. There's also a distinct lack of S6 weaponry to inflict instant death.

Shredders are probably our best bet, but do you really want to cripple your list against almost every other codex in the game because of one unit? I suppose I imagine a few IG codexes bringing some extra spotlights, but this is ridiculous.

In fact, Scarabs can cause some trouble as they are fast, fearless, and have a decent number of attacks. Grotesques have the ability to instantly kill them. Shredders are mediocre weapons vs other units but if you want to tailor your list vs Necrons they seem to be inevitable. Other than that, you could rapid fire them with poisoned weapons and then charge them with Wyches.

I'd say that a razorwing with monoscythe missiles could ruin a scarab swarm's day, it not, wyches can deal with them in combat. By the time scarabs get to DE vehicles, they're usually not occupied any more and have served their purpose.

It seems like everyone so far in this thread, is focusing on what the Dark Eldar can do, but not what the Necron can do to them.

1. The Stormlord is your worst nightmare. A lot of people are harping on "We have Night Vision!" but in multiple games, by multiple people (Several Showcased by Reecius) The Night Fighting/Acute Senses/Searchlights is not helping much. The Average roll for Nightfight still puts you in the Necron Death Range.

His lightning Strikes can break you early on. Or do nothing, but are likely to at least take out one vehicle. What may be even considered worse for the DE is his ability to Seize on a 4+, denying you the Alpha Strike. This makes deployment choices much harder.

2. Anrayker- You'll often see this guy mounted in a barge if he is brought. He'll sweep, kill a vehicle. Fire his Tacyhon arrow, and kill a Vehicle, then he can take control of one of YOUR vehicles, and fire onto another. He could also get out and assault a different vehicle after a sweep, depending on how far he moved. This guy has the potential to take out 2-4 Vehicles a turn, on his own.

The other Named characters can bring trouble as well, but these guys are probably the scariest for DE.

Troops- Keep in mind the Basic flayer can punch and kill any of your open topped vehicles. When Ghost Arks have 2 Flayer arrays on their own, a single Volley from each of them could take down two Separate vehicles, then the unit inside (If there is one) and fire at a different target. Basic Flayers also punch through most of your armor.

Immortals can be nasty. They can't come in as large units as warriors, but their weapons are far superior. The Blaster and Tesla Carbine can both blow through your Transports, as well the Blaster denying most of your armor saves. The Carbine can add in volume of shots for dealing with FNP.
Their Dedicated Transport, the Night scythe is also something to contemplate. While you won't see a lot now, due to no model, Expect them to start showing up once they come out. The Nightscythes Twin Linked Tesla Destructor is just going to punch right through your vehicles. It's Strength 7 Ap - Heavy 4, with the Tesla rule. For every 6 he rolls, he gets two more automatic hits. This isn't good for your Vehicles. The Ap - will stop a glance from outright killing you, but the volume of shots can easily bring you down.

A lot of people are dismissing scarabs, but depending on how things go, they can multi-assualt in wipe out your transports. They also are not scared of any of your assault units. Reecius had a battle report showing them wipe out Vect and his unit, easily. Their volume of attacks and number of wounds are just going to grind you down. You don't have a lot in your Arsenal that can double them out. Liquifier guns can cause 2 wounds, but they don't double out the swarms. You have a few weapons which can double them out, like shredders, but I don't see those taken very often. I don't see very many people switching out their Triple ravagers, for Razorwings either. So scarabs are still something to worry about.

Wraiths are deadly to your army. You don't have anything that can really tarpit them for very long (Except maybe beastmasters) or anything that's really a major threat to them. Yes, you can pump lance fire into them, but are you going to ignore the other targerts? You can pump poisoned wounds into them, but between 2W and a 3++, it's going to take a lot of fire. They are also very quick. Just about anything you throw into combat with them, is going to fold quickly.

Now, in heavy support things like Annihilation Barges, Canoptek Spyders, Anything but the Monolith really, should give you pause. Annihilation barges are cheap, and can wreck your transports pretty easily with Their Twin-linked Tesla Destructor. Spyders make more Scarabs, and can pull wound allocation, in addition to be pretty tough MC's to take down. Most of your close combat is going to be pretty ineffective against them. With 3W each, and a 3+ save, and wound allocation, it's going to take a while to take these down.

I want throw in a few bits of wargear as well,

Warscythes- They will ID most of your units.
Mind Shackle Scarabs- This is something to be very wary of. You get your Wyches into combat with a ten strong immortal you, and a lord, You should have it in the bag. If he Mindshackles your Hekatrix, you are getting your Agonizer rolls turned on your own unit, in addition to not being able to make attacks with them. Couple this with an Enemy Warscythe, and the fact you are hitting on 4's and wounding on 5's, you may very well lose the combat.



Things I would recommend
-Get into close combat, as quickly as you can, this is the Number one Necron weakness, so try to do what you can to best exploit it.
-Use your Superior mobility for board control. Not exactly easy, but you can bring a lot more vehicles to bear than the Necrons, and most of them are faster as well.
-Don't get caught in the open. Your likely going to get gunned down quickly, even with FNP if you get caught out in the open.
-Proper Target prioritization, is going to be key.
-Focus on one unit, until it's completely dead. You have volume of fire Poisoned shots, make sure to use them. If even one model is standing, 1/3rd of the unit is going to stand back up, even more with an Orb. In combination with Ghost Arks, you can watch a Warrior unit go from a single model back to full strength.

This is by no means an Exhaustive list, but I just wanted to throw this out there for everyone to think about. I'm not saying Necrons have an "Easy Battle" with Dark Eldar either, But I do believe that a lot of these posts here are sorely underestimating the Necrons.


Other than that, good luck!

Sasori wrote:It seems like everyone so far in this thread, is focusing on what the Dark Eldar can do, but not what the Necron can do to them.

1. The Stormlord is your worst nightmare. A lot of people are harping on "We have Night Vision!" but in multiple games, by multiple people (Several Showcased by Reecius) The Night Fighting/Acute Senses/Searchlights is not helping much. The Average roll for Nightfight still puts you in the Necron Death Range.

There are also many games where Night Fighting doesn't help so much-- I'm reminded of Reecius's game with Space Wolves against a Stormlord-based Doom Scythe army. Is Night Fighting a pain in the ass? Yeah. But will it doom an army that has searchlights, Acute Senses, etc.? Not hardly.

Sasori wrote:His lightning Strikes can break you early on. Or do nothing, but are likely to at least take out one vehicle. What may be even considered worse for the DE is his ability to Seize on a 4+, denying you the Alpha Strike. This makes deployment choices much harder.

This is an important point. I would be much more worried about the Stormlord's ability to seize the initiative than his night fight and lightning abilities-- the night fight ability can be taken in a better form via Solar Pulses, and the lightning strikes are unreliable at best. That said, many Necron armies lack the shooting to actually take an alpha strike of their own, so in some cases you may not need to worry too much about being seized on. Of course, such armies will likely incorporate strong assault units, so them getting the chance to move up before you shoot will still be important.

Sasori wrote:2. Anrayker- You'll often see this guy mounted in a barge if he is brought. He'll sweep, kill a vehicle. Fire his Tacyhon arrow, and kill a Vehicle, then he can take control of one of YOUR vehicles, and fire onto another. He could also get out and assault a different vehicle after a sweep, depending on how far he moved. This guy has the potential to take out 2-4 Vehicles a turn, on his own.

This is a rather silly thing to be worried about. Anrakyr's tachyon arrow is basically the hunter-killer missile from hell-- while it's a strong shot, it doesn't always hit and only fires once per game. Similarly, to assault you or control your vehicles, Anrakyr has to be in the midst of your army, where he will quickly die-- DE should have no trouble dealing with a 3 wound 3+ armor character with no invulnerable save, what with all the darklight and splinter weapons DE armies tend to sport. Further, Anrakyr is IMO not an all-comers choice and I don't think he will be seen all that often.

Sasori wrote:The other Named characters can bring trouble as well, but these guys are probably the scariest for DE.

Orikan is way, way scarier...

Sasori wrote:A lot of people are dismissing scarabs, but depending on how things go, they can multi-assualt in wipe out your transports. They also are not scared of any of your assault units. Reecius had a battle report showing them wipe out Vect and his unit, easily. Their volume of attacks and number of wounds are just going to grind you down. You don't have a lot in your Arsenal that can double them out. Liquifier guns can cause 2 wounds, but they don't double out the swarms. You have a few weapons which can double them out, like shredders, but I don't see those taken very often. I don't see very many people switching out their Triple ravagers, for Razorwings either. So scarabs are still something to worry about.

This is a very good point. Scarabs are extremely powerful and will likely be seen in nearly every Necron army. Having a plan to deal with Scarabs is going to be essential at 40k tournaments soon, and the quality of those plans will determine whether or not Scarabs will be seen on the competitive scene in the long run. I think it is possible to adapt to fighting them (Wracks for instance will do better than Wyches) but that a better idea is to look for shooting-based solutions. The Razorwing jumps out as an obvious choice here, but only really fits into some DE lists.

Sasori wrote:Wraiths are deadly to your army. You don't have anything that can really tarpit them for very long (Except maybe beastmasters) or anything that's really a major threat to them. Yes, you can pump lance fire into them, but are you going to ignore the other targerts? You can pump poisoned wounds into them, but between 2W and a 3++, it's going to take a lot of fire. They are also very quick. Just about anything you throw into combat with them, is going to fold quickly.

Wraiths are somewhat vulnerable to a lot of Dark Eldar shooting but are extremely powerful in assault, especially since their strength 6 attacks negate FNP on everybody except Drazhar, who isn't exactly an all-comers choice. Even Incubi do poorly against them, since Wraiths can rend through strong armor, ignore FNP, and aren't especially vulnerable to power weapons. Further, Wraiths with whip coils (or whatever this upgrade is called) reduce the Initiative score of their opponents, negating the advantages of most Dark Eldar units. I would give Wraiths a wide berth and attempt to shoot them to death. They are definitely an extremely lethal threat to Dark Eldar (and indeed, almost any) forces.

Sasori wrote:Now, in heavy support things like Annihilation Barges, Canoptek Spyders, Anything but the Monolith really, should give you pause. Annihilation barges are cheap, and can wreck your transports pretty easily with Their Twin-linked Tesla Destructor. Spyders make more Scarabs, and can pull wound allocation, in addition to be pretty tough MC's to take down. Most of your close combat is going to be pretty ineffective against them. With 3W each, and a 3+ save, and wound allocation, it's going to take a while to take these down.

Spyders are extremely poor against Dark Eldar, except insofar as they synergize with Scarabs. MCs are traditionally considered quite bad against mass poison and darklight, and Spyders are no exception. On the other hand, Annihilation Barges are completely devastating. Watch out for them-- their weapon is very powerful indeed and their cheap cost means you may see many on the battlefield. The fact that they are very resilient is just the icing on the cake.


Overall, I think that DE have the advantage against Necrons, especially if the Dark Eldar player has invested in Night Shields. Most DE armies should have a fairly easy time shooting it out with Necron forces under these conditions, and Acute Senses should help mitigate Necron use of the Stormlord and/or Crypeks with Solar Pulses. I would not, however, recommend engaging Necron forces in assault unless strictly necessary. While assault is a conventional weakness of the Necron army, Necron assault units match up very favorably with their Dark Eldar counterparts, and Necron Resurrection Protocols mean that unless you can break their units quickly-- something Wyches are not conventionally considered good at-- the Necrons will be able to bring you down via attrition. Incubi and Beastmasters will still be effective, especially against the Necron Troops, but they will falter against massed Scarabs and Wraiths.

My friend has recently bought a new necron army, and I also find it hard. My army list is on this site and my next units that I want are wracks and trueborn, both in venoms respectively. I can recommend venoms to take out both wraiths and scarabs, although because I only own one at the moment, i find it difficult to get enough stuff killed in each turn. My recommended tactic is venoms and ravagers with DL, maybe with a flyer thrown in there as well.