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"Declare how they are splitting their attacks immediately before rolling to hit."

Is this done for ALL attacks being made during an assault before any attacks are made, or just those being made at each Initiative step?

As the rule says: immediately before rolling to hit.

To answer your question more directly, it'd be at each Initiative step, right before you roll the dice to hit.

The answer was also 2 posts down in YMDC

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/413533.page

Thanks, Cheexsta.

CrashCanuck wrote:The answer was also 2 posts down in YMDC

Neither you nor Deathreaper answered my question about Initiative Steps.

Yes we did, The quote says "immediately before rolling to hit."

It does not say "before any attacks are made"

Immediately before rolling to hit can not be any more clear than it already is.

DeathReaper wrote:Yes we did

No, you didn't. I had asked:

Ghenghis Jon wrote:Is this at the very beginning of the Assault only, before any attacks are made, or at the beginning of each Initiative level?

Pg 37, Rolling to Hit: "Where the same roll is to hit is needed, attacks should be rolled together, []."

Let's say I have a Big Choppa Nob with a Waaagh! Banner locked in base to base combat with 4 Space Marines and a Librarian, and 9 Ork Slugga Boyz assault the Space Marines only. The Orks are all I3, but have different WS. Since I need different rolls to hit, I don't have to roll them together. If I only declare my attacks "immediately before rolling to hit", I can let the results of previous rolls effect where I declare subsequent attacks in the same Initiative step. I declare the Ork Boyz are targeting the Space Marines, and roll for their attacks, then wounds. Then I declare the Nob is targeting whoever, and roll my attacks.

I am unsure if it is truly possible within the rules of the game to do this. So I asked about it in a Multi-assault thread. Instead of answering my question with a yes or a no, and maybe a little insight or rulebook reference, you gave me as obfuscated an answer as the rulebook gives on the subject. So I pose the question to the Dakka community at large, and you follow me here with no more insight or rulebook reference than before. Please, would you either contribute something more definite to this discussion, or not contribute anything at all.

All attacks within an initiative step are simultaneous. If you're waiting until after a model in the same initiative has resolved his attacks to declare another models then you're no longer doing them simultaneously.

Also, the Nob is initiative 3 base, while the Boyz are 2. Unless you're charging through cover the Nob will be swinging before the Boyz.

Well since you have to declare "immediately before rolling to hit" that language is clear and is not debatable.

had you clarified what you were talking about it would have been easier to help, but with the info given our responses answered your question adequately.

@ Chrysis: I would like to agree with you, but it may not be the case.

Pg 36, WHO STRIKES FIRST: "Work through the Initiative values of the models engaged in the combat, starting with the highest and ending with the lowest. Models make their attacks when their Initiative value is reached []. If both sides have models with the same Initiative value, their attacks are made simultaneously."

The term "simultaneously" is only used to describe when both sides of a combat have the same initiative, but that is not the issue. I am just confused with his rule, combined with the ROLLING TO HIT and MULTIPLE COMBATS rules, as to exactly when Attacks in a Multi-Assault have to be declared. Do ALL attacks on an initiative step have to be declared before rolling the first of separate Rolls To Hit? Or just the attacks you are rolling for, like in my made up scenario? Or do ALL attacks have to be declared before the first Roll to Hit is made at your highest Initiative level? I don't know. This is my conundrum.

As for the scenario I made up, the Nob is already locked in combat, but the Boyz are furiously charging, making them all I3.

DeathReaper wrote:with the info given our responses answered your question adequately.

What about your info, your interpretation of the rules, your gaming experience? You based your response off of some words I typed with quotation marks around them in a vacuum, and not the construct of the Warhammer 40,000 miniatures game? That's why I asked in a Warhammer 40K Forum. And for the third time, you STILL have not answered my original question, or shed an inkling of light on the subject:

Ghenghis Jon wrote:Is this at the very beginning of the Assault only, before any attacks are made, or at the beginning of each Initiative level?

So, either contribute to the discussion, or stop posting here.

All attacks are made simultaneously by both sides when their Initiative value is reached. If only one side has models at a given initiative then these "Models make their attacks when their Initiative value is reached" so if you have 5 guys all at I4 then you have 4 models all making their attacks all at the same time..

To answer your question of " Do ALL attacks on an initiative step have to be declared before rolling the first of separate Rolls To Hit?"

Yes all attacks at a given Initiative step must be declared at the same time. You can not let the results of previous rolls effect where you declare subsequent attacks in the same Initiative step. since "Models [This means all models] make their attacks when their Initiative value is reached" and you declare: "immediately before rolling to hit"

It is really clear how it works.

Hopefully I can make this answer for you totally clear. Using your example of 1 Nob, 9 Slugga Boyz, 5 Tac Marines and 1 Librarian, that the Slugga Boyz are only in contact with the Tac Squad, not the Librarian, and that the Slugga Boyz assaulted the turn but the Nob did not. That puts the Nob and Boyz at I3 and the Tac Squad and Libby at I4.

Libby and Marines get to attack, Libby has to hit the Nob as he isn't in B2B with the Boyz, Marines are in B2B with both the Nob and the Boyz so when the SM player picks up the dice for the Tac Squad he says X are for the Boyz, Y for the Nob (hopefully have different coloured dice to make the distinction easy to see) and rolls. Nob gets to roll in the same manner as the Tac Squad, the Boyz must allocate all their attacks at the Tac Squad as they are not in B2B with the Libby.

@ CrashKanuck: Yes, that is the way I have always played it, declaring where ALL of the hits of the initiative steps together because I roll ALL of the different To Hit Rolls with differentiated dice together. However, just because this is convention or convenient does not mean that that is the way it HAS to be done. Are we in agreement that the Rulebook says these things:

1. You declare attacks immediately before rolling their To Hit dice. pg 41
2. Different To Hit rolls must be separated (in my example for different WS and S/T comparisons). pg 37

You have shown a fine example of practical application of these rules using differentiated dice (different size, color, piles, etc.), but in doing so you have declared ALL of your attacks at an initiative step by separating the dice in some fashion.

But my original question, and the one no one has been able to answer definitively, is, since I have to roll the Nobz and Boyz attacks separately because of different To Hit values, do I have to roll them at the same time? And if I don't have to roll them at the same time, do I have to declare them ALL before the first group rolled, or just the group I am rolling for? Before you say I HAVE to roll them all (different To Hit Rolls) at the same time, please tell me where it says this.

This has to do with more than the the scenario I described. This has to do with Dark Eldar gaining Furious Charge after the Saves are rolled, thus changing their initiative from one lower to the one just resolved. The reason I didn't start with that scenario is because I want to see what is allowed in a simplified the scenario. Can attacks made at the same initiative step be rolled for separately? Yes. Do they have to be rolled at the same time? No. Do all of the attacks being made at an initiative step have to be declared before the first group is rolled for? I dunno. Let me ask on Dakka and see who can be the most pedantic.

And as a side note, since the Marines and Librarian started the combat in Base to Base contact with the Nob, they must attack the Nob and cannot attack the Boyz. Pg 41, col 1, 3rd bullet.

All attacks at any given Initiative value occur simultaneously.

This has no bearing on when you actually roll the dice because of different weapon skills or Str vs Tough.

If you have 3 guys striking at Initiative 3 with S4 and 1 guy with a S6, then before any rolls for any attacks are made at I3 you have to declare where ALL of your attacks at I3 will be targeted before ANY rolls are made for that initiative step.

It doesnt matter if you roll them at different "times" or not - they are still the same time as far as the game is concerned.

So yes, you must declare ALL of your attacks at the I step BEFORE you roll ANY of your attacks at that I step, even if you roll using the same dice and therefore resolve one lot fully before moving onto the next - they all occur in the same game time.

Thank you.