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Hi all,

My search fu is weak and the other forums I frequent are turning up zip on this...

Either Scourges are not used at all... ever... or the meta just evolved in a different direction from them.

Can anyone tell me which unit sizes are optimal for this unit at 1500, 1750 and 2000pts?

Also, how would you load them out and what role would they play?

I love the new models and just bought 2 boxes cos I wanted so very much to paint and field them... now I just need to fit them into a list somehow

Well I love scourges, the models are great, and they are good at what they do (tank hunting), although I will admit they are overshadowed by other things in the codex being able to do them just aswell with added bonuses, like reavers and their assault moves to get back out of assault range.

However they are still good at what they do. I take mine in squads of 5 with a haywire blaster and heat lance. Taking them in larger squads won't lend much to their suvivability, although their ghostplate is really fun to get that surprise invulnerable (it's not much, but better than a slap in the face with a wet fish). I take them in that loadout because haywires are very very good at stunlocking any vehicle, and no matter the armour can still kill it too; while the AP1 for the heat lance has a better chance of killing the vehicle. So if you fail to penetrate with the heat lance you're almost guaranteed to stop that vehicle in it's tracks. They also good with their viability of coming down via deepstrike, or if you have a WWP you can change your mind last second and have them just fly out of that.

So depending on your points level is how many groups of 5 I would take, at 1750 I take 2 groups.

I find Scourges very frustrating. They've got access to some of the best anti-tank weaponry in our codex and can deep strike to get into range against even rear armor...but can only take 2 heavy weapons for every 5 units.

This leaves 60% of your Scourges sitting there doing nothing, firing their splinter carbines uselessly against the side of a vehicle's hull. What a waste! I guess you could give them splinter cannons, but that just really ruins the mobility of your jump infantry. There's just no good weapon for them.

They're great models, and I desperately want to love them. But they make it difficult.

Like most Dark Eldar unit Scourges are pretty flexible and can fit into a large number of builds. Most of the time though they are going to be 5 strong with 2 (duplicate) special/heavy weapons. You can go to 10 stong once you have filled all your other Fast slots if you really want, but that makes them very expensive and really requires you to build your entire list around them (getting them Pain tokens to start with etc).

As a melta hunter with 2 Heat Lances they are slightly cheaper than Reavers, and because they can Deep Strike they can fit in to basically any list. With 2 Haywires they can reliable stunlock a vehicle for you per turn, which again can fit into most lists but is probably most helpful in aggressive assault based lists. 2 Dark Lances keep them static (ignoring the rest of the unit, which can toss a couple of poison wounds on infantry on the move, which is better than nothing), but is still one of the cheapest ways to get Lances so definitely have a place in lists which a really trying to spam Lances or are just short on long ranged anti tank. 2 Splinter Cannons is probably the least useful loadout, it certainly works well with their standard weaponry and makes them a solid anti infantry unit, but in practice most DE armies have that covered already.

Thanks for the feedback guys!

You made my next quartersomuch easier as I can now shock and awe my future opponents when I reveal a non-MEQ list at events which over 80% of opponents run MEQ...

Not only does the unknown quantity throw many opponents, but I can alsopaint these guys up to a very nice standard due to the sheer factor that they are NOT marines (boring!) and I will actually enjoy painting them

I personally love Scourges.

But I've always disdained Heat Lances on them and have recently come to disfavor Haywire Blasters. Both for very good reasons.

Heat Lances? Love 'em on Reavers. They're nasty. But on Scourges? No. The reason for that is the low strength on the Heat Lance. You need to be within 9 inches of a vehicle to reliably get penetrations even on armor 10. Strength 6 only has a 33% chance to pen without the extra melta dice, and you don't have volume of fire to overcome that. You get two shots in a 5 man scourge unit, that's it. Now, on Reavers, getting 9 inches isn't such a big deal. Especially if you run minimalist squads like I do (78 points for 3 reavers and a heat lance.) Plus, they have the 6" assault move. Which has saved that unit more times than I can count. Pop around a corner, hits something more valuable then they are (ignore the transports, go for the really valuable stuff) and then duck out of LoS to avoid return fire. Your opponent now has a choice. Move something out of position to chase the annoying 78 point harrassment unit that's going to pop another tank next turn, or engage the rest of your enemy. Scourges have no such advantage. They are more expensive (134 points for 2 heat lances), they cannot move out of LoS after popping something, and while you get one two more wounds than the Reaver unit, you are if anything, less durable on account of the lack of assault move shenanigans.

Haywire blaster I used to love. Used to adore it. It was my go-to choice for Scourges for a long time, and I still do love it. It's incredibly effective at what it does (stunlocking vehicles.) Most of the time. That little caveat right there is why I've shied away from my beloved electro-guns. With the release of Grey Knights came an army that could mech up and completely ignore stun locks with Fortitude. But that was okay then. I still used my Haywire blasters because it was just one army that could do it. Then Necrons came out. And they can do exactly the same thing. This combines with the fact that my local meta has seen lots of mechanized armies stacking extra armor so they can still move after being stunned. Each of these factors combines to create an enviroment that makes stun-locking very hard if not impossible. Individually? Not a big deal. All combined together? Goodbye Haywire Blasters.

Now that I've given my criticisms on those two.

What I'd recommend; The ubiquitous blaster. Dark Lances are good, but you're paying a premium for those scourges's mobility. In my mind it's a waste of points not to take advantage of that fact. You can make an effective sniper unit of scourges by giving them two dark lances and sitting them in a building. But. You're really only getting 6 extra inches of range there. With a blaster, you can move 12, shoot 18, total threat range... 30 inches. Only six inches shorter than the stationary Dark Lance snipers, and just as effective at cracking armor. Not to mention the greater maneuverability. There's also anti-infantry to consider. Scourges base weapons are built for killing troops, and blasters can do that just as effectively. Especially against T4 multi-wound models.

Splinter Cannons? You either pay 10 points for 3 extra shots and give up your maneuverability, or pay 10 points for 1 extra shot with a longer range. I wouldn't if I were you.

Shredders? Hahah, noooo.

But there's another viable option to consider. No upgrades. Take a naked squad of scourges and uses them as a infantry harassment unit. They excel at this role. The bad part is that many many many many many many other units in the DE codex excel at this role, but Scourges do it well too.

I love scourges but only in bigger games where the much needed extra firepower comes from. Normally I run 2-3 squads in a 2500 pt list and really anything above 1850 starts to see them coming in to play. Look beasts are nice and all but I want that ability to take out a LR sometimes! Now when comparing them to something like reavers they each have their spot. Small squads reavers win hands down, and by small I mean 3 man units. Anything any bigger and scourges win.

Why?

Well it requires one less body to get 2 special weapons and I want that redundancy in my army so that if one fails another still has a chance to hit. "Quantity is a quality all it own" -Stalin.

Now some people don't like giving them heat lances because they get too close. My response to that is don't make them a smaller target priority. Normally I run them out of a WWP that my haemy just laid down. Oh did I mention he just left some wyches behind in a raider. Yup most people see wyches and when they realize that they can't destroy the portal they target the wyches. Something about that name just makes people go after them. This can buy your scourges some extra time to go around destroying tanks until either the wyches are in CC (which is where you want them) or you have gotten the scourges too far away from your distracting units.

Even if you don't want to run a portal consider that a 5 man squad of scourges with 2 heat lances costs about 135 points (not exact as I don't have my codex but its close enough). Now DS them and pop a tank...any tank go ahead and pick one. A LRBT? base its 150. Predators and vindicators can cost more. So even then you have already made your points back and then some so why not go for it and destroy a tank.

If you aren't about getting up close consider a DL which reavers can't take (and honestly they are the closest thing to scourges). 5 scourges gets you two extra DL and in a 2500 point game that can save you where you are scrapping for every DL you can grab.

IMHO...not counting beasts they are the best FA option and people fall in love with reavers since they came out first and are in the battleforce. Plus scourges were awful in the old book so even vets shy away from them due to bad memories.

What I have grown quite fond of the following loud out:
5 Scourges
2 HLs
1 Sybarite+BP

Most people would scoff at the 25 points for the Sybarite+BP but when your most affective threat range is 9" you find your self with 6" more often then you might think. Also with DS/WWP delivery system you should be able to punch some taint hard the turn you arrive, and the BP notches up the anti-tank punch within and 18" threat range substantially.

Also the pip of LD is always nice.

Finally, in certain lists when I have spare points, I'll throw the sybarite a Poison weap or other CC upgrade. Sacrilege I know, but granting the Birds the ability to unload on an MSU troop, assault with their High I and clean them up and nab a PT is a very nifty little trick.

I like the 5 scourge squad as well except just heat lances.

I prefer using scourges in wwp lists and declaring them deepstriking. When they arrive from reserve you have the option to use the portal or not. Only had to use deepstriking twice now and both have been successful.

If I am running them in a "rush" list then I give them 2 haywire blasters in a squad of 5 as their movement + range is enough to get them targets on the first turn.

Tried the solarite but found that when you take casualties in such a small squad it isn't really worth saving.

Tried them in a squad 10 with 4 heat lances - fun but man! what a footprint they give.

5 man or 10 man the opponent usually targets them first anyway so as I mentioned, a solarite never did me any good.

This has proven to be quite informative.

I have no regrets starting this thread.