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Did he live?

Not to spoil anything for you but listen to Garro: Legion of One, all is revealed.

He was one of the first grey knights.

Loken.

<3

Pilau Rice wrote:Not to spoil anything for you but listen to Garro: Legion of One, all is revealed.

I just read about this elsewhere... I wasn't interested in the audiodramas previously, but now I am... Loken is awesome. Are the new revalations about Loken and Garro referenced in the new GK codex?

One word. CERBERUS.

loken and garro become the first generation of GK, Malcador the Sigilite helps found the Inquisition before his death, and rowboat girlyman gets to be the conquering hero despite being an easily decieved fool.

Where is it outright stated that they become the first of the Grey Knights? Neither one is a psyker, a requirement for all Grey Knights as far as we know.

It's strongly hinted that they were founding members of the Inquisition, however.

A better question would be what happened to Tarvitz?

Malcador recruited twelve dudes, four were lords or administrators and they formed the inquisition, and 8 were space marines including Gavriel Loken, Nathaniel Garro, and Iacton Qruze. They were taken to a fortress monastery on Titan (one of Saturns moons). It was fully stocked with everything needed to create a new chapter and the Emporer had the entire moon hidden in the warp away from the heresy. During the second founding they emerged from the warp as a full strength chapter.

Thare1774 wrote:Malcador recruited twelve dudes, four were lords or administrators and they formed the inquisition, and 8 were space marines including Gavriel Loken, Nathaniel Garro, and Iacton Qruze. They were taken to a fortress monastery on Titan (one of Saturns moons). It was fully stocked with everything needed to create a new chapter and the Emporer had the entire moon hidden in the warp away from the heresy. During the second founding they emerged from the warp as a full strength chapter.

Oh yeah?

Which book is that in, out of curiosity?

vodo40k wrote:A better question would be what happened to Tarvitz?

His plot armour wasn't thick enough to withstand the Orbital Bombardment. I would have preferred him living to be honest.

Seaward wrote:

Thare1774 wrote:Malcador recruited twelve dudes, four were lords or administrators and they formed the inquisition, and 8 were space marines including Gavriel Loken, Nathaniel Garro, and Iacton Qruze. They were taken to a fortress monastery on Titan (one of Saturns moons). It was fully stocked with everything needed to create a new chapter and the Emporer had the entire moon hidden in the warp away from the heresy. During the second founding they emerged from the warp as a full strength chapter.

Oh yeah?

Which book is that in, out of curiosity?

It's in Codex GK and while it doesn't specifically state that the three of them were there (it may in other fluff sources) it is strongly accepted
that they are, in the codex the only named of the 8 original GK's is Janus who went on to be the first Supreme Grand Master

Tiarna Fuilteach wrote:

Seaward wrote:

Thare1774 wrote:Malcador recruited twelve dudes, four were lords or administrators and they formed the inquisition, and 8 were space marines including Gavriel Loken, Nathaniel Garro, and Iacton Qruze. They were taken to a fortress monastery on Titan (one of Saturns moons). It was fully stocked with everything needed to create a new chapter and the Emporer had the entire moon hidden in the warp away from the heresy. During the second founding they emerged from the warp as a full strength chapter.

Oh yeah?

Which book is that in, out of curiosity?

It's in Codex GK and while it doesn't specifically state that the three of them were there (it may in other fluff sources) it is strongly accepted
that they are, in the codex the only named of the 8 original GK's is Janus who went on to be the first Supreme Grand Master

Janus was a psyker, if I'm not mistaken.

Being a psyker didn't become integral to the Grey Knights after they were founded, but was a requirement right from the start, if I'm not mistaken.

I know I'm not mistaken in saying none of those three was a psyker; BL authors have confirmed it. It's highly unlikely they were part of the original Grey Knights.

They could have been used to train them, regardless of whether they were psykers or not. They had some experience with Chaos and the traitors, which was exceedingly rare.

In the "Legion of One" audiobook Garro calls himself a knight and shows up on Istvaan III in a new suit of silver armor. I think that mixed with his conversation with Malcador in the Eisenstein novel it would be safe to say he is a grey knight. I know that now the Grey Knights are composed of psykers, but I don't think its crazy to assume that some of the original members may not have been psykers. It was 10000 years before the present setting and during a desperate time, the loyalists from the traitor legions were prime Grey Knights candidates just based on there loyalty and the fact that they successfully resisted the influence of chaos when most of their entire legions could not. That makes them special enough in my book, I would also say that there are different levels of psyker abilities and we may find out in future fluff that these loyalists do have some form of that power. I'm going to look through some fluff today and list specific references to my previous statement, but it is described on lexicanum so ill find a source

Thare1774 wrote:In the "Legion of One" audiobook Garro calls himself a knight and shows up on Istvaan III in a new suit of silver armor. I think that mixed with his conversation with Malcador in the Eisenstein novel it would be safe to say he is a grey knight. I know that now the Grey Knights are composed of psykers, but I don't think its crazy to assume that some of the original members may not have been psykers. It was 10000 years before the present setting and during a desperate time, the loyalists from the traitor legions were prime Grey Knights candidates just based on there loyalty and the fact that they successfully resisted the influence of chaos when most of their entire legions could not. That makes them special enough in my book, I would also say that there are different levels of psyker abilities and we may find out in future fluff that these loyalists do have some form of that power. I'm going to look through some fluff today and list specific references to my previous statement, but it is described on lexicanum so ill find a source

One of the Horus Heresy authors - Aaron Dembski-Bowden - has outright said that Loken is not a psyker, so I'll take his word over Lexicanum's, given that he's, you know, actually plugged into the storyline and what's going to happen. Loken's conversation with Malcador in Eisenstein also points far more towards the Inquisition than the Grey Knights - and there is a distinction - with Malcador's whole, "I'm looking for individuals of an inquisitive nature," schtick.

The timeline also doesn't make a lot of sense; Loken had his chat with Malcador and got recruited for whatever secret purpose more or less at the dawn of the Heresy. If that purpose was in fact the Grey Knights, that suggests the Emperor had everything for their founding up and ready to go before the Heresy occurred - which begs the question of why he didn't bother starting it beforehand. The start-up time for the Inquisition, on the other hand, is something that can be accounted for on the fly.

Seaward wrote:If that purpose was in fact the Grey Knights, that suggests the Emperor had everything for their founding up and ready to go before the Heresy occurred - which begs the question of why he didn't bother starting it beforehand.

Because the Emperor is a bit of an ass-hat.

Seaward wrote:
One of the Horus Heresy authors - Aaron Dembski-Bowden - has outright said that Loken is not a psyker, so I'll take his word over Lexicanum's, given that he's, you know, actually plugged into the storyline and what's going to happen. Loken's conversation with Malcador in Eisenstein also points far more towards the Inquisition than the Grey Knights - and there is a distinction - with Malcador's whole, "I'm looking for individuals of an inquisitive nature," schtick.

The timeline also doesn't make a lot of sense; Loken had his chat with Malcador and got recruited for whatever secret purpose more or less at the dawn of the Heresy. If that purpose was in fact the Grey Knights, that suggests the Emperor had everything for their founding up and ready to go before the Heresy occurred - which begs the question of why he didn't bother starting it beforehand. The start-up time for the Inquisition, on the other hand, is something that can be accounted for on the fly.

I understand your reluctance to accept this theory on the founding fathers of the GK. There are indeed a few uncertainties and contradictions in this fluff (pretty much like anything written by GW when you think about it ). But this is how 40K fans sum up the entire story (some of it being demi-lies, half truths, or near-speculation, but it'll do until GW sorts out its fluff):

Loken somehow survived the orbital bombardment on Isstvaan. He was presented to the emperor by Malcador, along with 8 other SM and 4 normal humans.

Among those SM was Janus, who became the first GK Grand Master, Qurze and Garro.

Garro himself is strongly hinted to be one of (if not the very) first Grey Knights. So is Loken. I'm not sure about Garro, I'll have to listen to the audiobook again.

Even if Loken and Garro did not become full-fledged GK, they became the founding fathers of the Inquisition. That's already pretty Bad-ass.

While the idea fits, writers such as ADB have been dismissive that it's a forgone conclusion yet (link) . All we know is that the one if the founders was called Janus and he would become the first Supreme Grand Master. Anything else regarding the names of the eight is still just speculation.

Seaward wrote: If that purpose was in fact the Grey Knights, that suggests the Emperor had everything for their founding up and ready to go before the Heresy occurred - which begs the question of why he didn't bother starting it beforehand.

He was in the middle of a fairly intense game of idiot-ball

Seaward wrote: that suggests the Emperor had everything for their founding up and ready to go before the Heresy occurred - which begs the question of why he didn't bother starting it beforehand.

Because then he couldn't have become the 5th-ish chaos god?

Greyish wrote:While the idea fits, writers such as ADB have been dismissive that it's a forgone conclusion yet (link) . All we know is that the one if the founders was called Janus and he would become the first Supreme Grand Master. Anything else regarding the names of the eight is still just speculation.

Yup.

One of the things I like most about ADB is that I get the impression he's the one in the Horus Heresy meetings doing his level best to keep the Mary Sueness from turning all the way up to eleven.

There is more in this thread than I knew however I can say Loken was awesome.

The whole idea of the Mournival was awesome.