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So guys I have been playing my Mech Eldar for a while now and am enjoying the hell out of it. After playing against some competitive lists, I started thinking about what I would add to my 2000 point list to bump it up to 2500 points. At first glance, I was just going to add 2 more units of 5 DA in a serpent with Eldar Missiles. This seems like a nice upgrade...2 more tanks maxing out to 12 tanks on the table that are fast as hell with an ok amount of staying power, but I noticed another option. Would it be worth my while in maxing out my Fire Dragon units? I was thinking about having 30 Dragons on the table and different ways to utilize them. My current tactic is running the Duel Autarch and coming in from reserve on one table flank, denying my opponent range and keeping me out of harms way for a couple turns. I was thinking with the dragons, I could run them all together and use them as a mobile "death star" You can essentially use 1 squad to crack open anything, and the other 2 squads to dump 20 shots into some scary unit that would cause you mad problems if you didn't get rid of it. While it is a lot of points in 3 units, If you run them together, the chances of them getting assaulted or countered the next turn is fairly slim since your opponent will be eating a ton of melta, and prob wont be around to do much to you. Not to mention, you can create a very nice defense wall with the rest of your tanks keeping the dragons safe. This may not be the best option, but it seemed like a decent upgrade to the army. Plus I would still have enough points to get another DAVU unit, so I'm really only sacrificing 1 tank. What are your guys thoughts on this?

Hello Badsheep,
I think running 2-3 squads together as a deathstar could work well. I know people frequently say that any more than 5-6 dragons is a waste, however I have had many of occasions that they have failed to crack something really big like a monolith or Land Raider (esp. Black Templars with Blessed Hull). I think a squad of ten is good, however it is essential to use the tanks to block or as much as possible block assault, as the dragons will die. If they were not elites, you could have a squad of CC units to back them up and counter assault. Another consideration is two squads of Fire Dragons (10) and then using a CC unit like Banshees or Harlies (this is a little harder to do as you will have to give them a ride). But I think you could do it. Have you ever considered instead of the 2 autarchs, dropping one and taking Feugan the Phoenix Lord (He is FNP, makes the squad fearless and is decent in CC, so may make the unit more survivable - but more expensive). Something to consider. I know you do not like Farseers, but this is an option that may make the unit more survivable. Take care and cheers.

Here is what I have been thinking of. I'm not giving point values here as you know how much they are.
* 5 Fire Dragons costs you X points
* To upgrade your 3 FD squads to 10 man costs you Y points.
* A Wave Serpent with 5 DA costs about 50 points less than Y.
So, for the cost of those 3 your upgrades, your sacrificing just about 1 tank. In high point games (2000-2500), it is something to seriously consider, as it gives the ability to wipe out a deathstar with little overall impact on your armor wall. (11 tanks is nearly as tough to kill as 12 tanks)

The problem is if your trading your 5 man squad to kill a 150 point tank, your winning out. If your trading a 10 man squad to do the same, the reward is not as great. Even though it means the chances of the suicide squad being able to kill a 2nd target, its not a guaranteed thing. As such, you want to consider keeping at least one 5 man squad for the suicide melta.

Another idea I want to throw out there. If your going to up your dragons squad sizes, to make them less effective as a suicide unit, you might want to consider bringing a 3 man squad of warlocks to fill the gap. Just have the warlocks rush out with their STR 9 swords to tear vehicles open or psydreads apart. They cost 85 points and are still pretty reliable for the job.

I think small Warlock squads might be something to really consider. If you give them Destructors you increase their cost by 40% but 3 HFs will make a dent in any horde (especially considering doom and tank shock)

Here is why I have been thinking more of warlock squads lately. Your elite slots are all filled with fire dragons, which are your tank-killers. This puts a lot of pressure on the FO slot.

As your probably taking Eldard already, a warlock squad can be picked up and Eldrad does not need to join them. This gives another suicide squad that can be used to lower the pressure on the elite slot, either allowing you to use a squad of FD for anti-infantry, or possibly even taking a squad of banshees for your anti-DCA unit. (A squad of 10 banshees assaulting a doomed 8 woman DCA will on average wreck face)

What about putting a small squad 3-5 warlocks on bikes? Then they really need fortune to make them more survivable, but if you already have another seer, you could just give him fortune or SS + doom and use these to tank kill. I like running a mix of Spears and swords as the spears can be thrown 12" and you may not need to assault. This is just my opinion.

But getting back to the original post question. I think 10 man squads are worth it and more survivable and reliable

Thanks so much for all the replies. You guys give a lot of good advice and food for thought. My HQ choices probably wont budge just because I'm so used to using them and they haven't failed me yet.

I really think I'm going to go for upgrading the Fire dragon squads. I would consider keeping the 1 squad down to 5, but I'm not 100% sure if thats the way to go. I might just be better off with 3 full squads.

I do love the idea of a squad of warlocks, but my HQs are tied up...sigh there are way to many options. Something I haven't considered before were banshees or a CC unit to counter assaults. This is another great option, but IMO FDs are just to hard to get rid of.

Dang. I just deleted a bunch of 40k lists from a file, one of them being a full FireD list from a poster here on dakka. Maybe westenfux (sp?). Anyway, it was 3 units of FDs, but I'm now kicking myself 'cause I can't recall if they were 10 guys each or 5 ish with exarchs. The poster claimed it was quite the RTT stomper.

Having watched your batreps, I can say that I think it would be good, with at least two other units, of 5 each. They'd work in concert, with a scorpion or banshee counter punch. Or at least a h2h unit of DAs ready to bail them out of an assault.