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So I have been playing 40k for about a year. Got the gf into war machine because she loves steam punk stuff. woot! she wants to play crix. Im torn between skorne and trollbloods.

Things that I was wondering:
1. People on forums are saying it is far more balanced than 40k. Is this true?
2. Can GW paint be used for war machine models? I know it can. But does it look right?
3. is that starter box the way to go? because it isn't always the case in 40k.
4. I know the two games are compatable. same rule book? or just the same stat lines?
5. I've heard it said that army compsision is less important than luck and tactics. Does this mean that there is no such thing as a usless model in this game? In 40 there are some models that I love but are completely usless which is a bummer.

Any comments would be greatly appreciated.

ServantofChaos wrote:So I have been playing 40k for about a year. Got the gf into war machine because she loves steam punk stuff. woot! she wants to play crix. Im torn between skorne and trollbloods.

Things that I was wondering:
1. People on forums are saying it is far more balanced than 40k. Is this true? Yup!
2. Can GW paint be used for war machine models? I know it can. But does it look right? Certainly - and, of course, you can paint the models however you want. If your girlfriend wants cyan/orange Cryx and you want pink trollbloods, do it!
3. is that starter box the way to go? because it isn't always the case in 40k. Well, it depends on what you mean by 'starter box'. If you mean the two battleboxes - one for Cryx, and one for Trollbloods/Skorne - then yes! They're comparable power-wise (slight advantage to Cryx, but that's Cryx for ya! ). If you mean the 2-player box that was just released... no.
4. I know the two games are compatible. same rule book? or just the same stat lines? Same basic rules, mostly same mechanics, mostly same stat lines. Hordes uses Fury, Warcasters and Animi, while Warmachine has Focus and Warcasters.
5. I've heard it said that army composition is less important than luck and tactics. Does this mean that there is no such thing as a useless model in this game? In 40 there are some models that I love but are completely useless which is a bummer. Kind of. Army composition is certainly important in these games, since they rely heavily on synergies between units (or on a unit's ability to simply rely on itself!) - in fact, one could say that list-building in Warmachine/Hordes is far more intricate than it is in 40k (I'd argue the case for Fantasy, however)! But the games mostly rely on the skill of the players - it's a rare occurrence when someone can look at two lists and point at the obvious winner. It relies on how well the player can manage both his units in-game, while also handling either resource (Warmachine) or risk (Hordes) management.

Any comments would be greatly appreciated.

ServantofChaos wrote:1. People on forums are saying it is far more balanced than 40k. Is this true?

I'm not really qualified on this (I'm a WM/H person who found this forum and decided to comment, not an actual WHFB/WH40K person). But as I gather, there is a more concerted effort on PP's part to make the game more balanced and competitive then GW. They do this at the expense of some customization and such. And some people do not like the gameplay goals, as evidenced in threads here.

That said, I find it pretty balanced. Player skill is a big factor in this game, and there is not as much chaff as could be if there weren't PP's attempts to keep things balanced.

ServantofChaos wrote:2. Can GW paint be used for war machine models? I know it can. But does it look right?

I don't see why not. PP use to use GW colors in their older painting guides, actually. They have their own in-house line now, but nothing really stops you from using GW stuff if you want. I see alot of the Reaper inks, for instance.

ServantofChaos wrote:3. is that starter box the way to go? because it isn't always the case in 40k.

The starter boxes are usually really good deals, often getting yous tuff at about $60 off retail. Note that, though, you might not use everything in the boxes, but that still may result in you at least getting a model "free" at least. And there are a few threads out there on how ot use the models in the starter boxes to build-up a pretty good army.

ServantofChaos wrote:4. I know the two games are compatable. same rule book? or just the same stat lines?

More same stat lines and resolution mechanics. The main things they have in contrast is the resoruce management systems and what models interact with that, really. Hordes and Warmachine do use different rulebooks, but I would say only about 1/4 of the rules between them are actually different as far as the core engine is concerned and they do interact with one-another, with rules referring to the resrouces of both games.

ServantofChaos wrote:5. I've heard it said that army compsision is less important than luck and tactics. Does this mean that there is no such thing as a usless model in this game? In 40 there are some models that I love but are completely usless which is a bummer.

No game is perfect. There are still a few models that simply aren't worth their cost, sadly. That said, there is not a lot of utterly horrid things out there, and there is something to be said about how one can create interesting combos with sometimes considered "weak" options out there, so its hard ti discount more then a handful of models.

And stuff.

Thank you very much

1. I have heard it best described as "everything is broken to the point of balance". Pretty much everything you look at will seem amazing, but since everyone gets amazing things it is relatively balanced. But also because everything is amazing, player skill and mentality is a very defining aspect of the game.

2. Paint is paint. Acrylic paint that GW slaps their logo on does not boil or turn to ash when touching another company's metal. That would be pretty cool if it did, though!

3. Which starter box are you referring to? The new Two-Player starter box with Menoth and Khador is a solid way to get into the game. You get about $300 of goodies for $100 assuming you don't find somewhere that gives a discount. That being said, if you're interested in Skorne or Trollbloods and she wants Cryx, then picking up a bunch of Khador and Menoth minis will not do you any good.

Now, if you are referring to the Cryx Battle Box and the Trollblood/Skorne Warpack, that's a different story and really depends what you like out of those armies. If your girlfriend likes Skarre and her Satyxis sisters, then buying a box consisting of Deneghra and some arc nodes will not be a good investment. Likewise with the Hordes armies you mentioned.

4. Technically Warmachine and Hordes have different rulebooks, but the only difference is in the way Fury (Hordes) and Focus (WM) is managed. Otherwise the books are practically identical, even so far as rules often being found on the same page numbers in either book. If you intend to only purchase one rulebook, I would pick up the Hordes one as it does a good job of explaining how Fury works. Focus is pretty intuitive: you have it and you give it away. Fury takes a bit more explanation in the way it works.

5. Army composition is an important part of practically any wargame. It is true that for the most part every model has a purpose and can be made useful; very few models overall are simply bad (note that Cryx Drudges are bad, do not let your girlfriend get them). However, it is more true that synergy is a strong aspect of the game. While having a bunch of individually decent models is fine, if they do not work with each other then you will often be at a disadvantage. The most basic premise of this would be having an Infantry-centric warcaster in an army with very little infantry. It's not that the models you chose to take are necessarily bad, they just don't always get along in every combination.

Now, assuming the models you brought get along well enough with each other, then it is indeed tactics and dice rolls that make the game. Dice rolls can be mitigated thanks to things like Boosting (adding more dice for higher averages), but at the end of the day it's still a dice game. Rolling nothing but 1's and 2's all game long will kill you just as much as a terrible error in judgement will. Most players make decisions and assumptions based on average dice rolls, and for the most part in my experience that's a pretty safe way to go. Yes, I've had my buffed out Deathjack totally whiff a half-dead warcaster but at that point you just laugh, shake your head and move on with enjoying the game.

Edit: Wow, we jumped on this one pretty well!

Pretty much all the above answers are right.

Only thing I'd add is that at smaller point values ( battlebox is usually around 10-12 pts ) Cryx is pretty strong. Don't be discouraged if you lose a lot early on, especially if you get into Trolls since they are kind of uh... weaker. Like a bit less competitive, but really fun to paint and play and read about.


Outside of the Focus vs Fury thing mentioned above, the other major factor between Hordes and Warmachine is the available Mercenaries and Minions. There are a couple of models that work for warmachine armies AND hordes armies, but most of the time its exclusive.

So if you want to run Steelhead Halberdiers, you need to have a Warmachine army they'll work for. If you want to run Bog Trog Ambushers, you need to be using a Hordes army.

Here is the big point that I'll make:

The Battle Boxes / Warpacks are very good deals if you are getting started, and are perhaps one of the best ways to get introduced to the game. HOWEVER...

...the Hordes and Warmachine battle boxes are not designed to be played against one another. All of the Hordes boxes are balanced against each other, and all of the Warmachine boxes are balanced against each other, but crosswise this is not always true.

Due to this, you might want to do a bit of research and see if there are any support solos that you want to add to bring you both up to 15 points when you start playing. The Troll starter box is 10 points, while the Cryx box clocks in at 14 points - a fairly substantial difference.

You can even things up by adding an elemental troll light to your starter set (brings you to 14 points) or by swapping out an Impaler for a Dire Troll Mauler (again 14 points). You can also add some troops and aim for 15, and let Deneghra swap out a model or add in a Necrotech to fill in that last point slot. But the point differential IS worth noting, as the Hordes boxes tend to over around 10-11 points and the WM boxes are between 12 and 14.

The short and long of the "different systems" is that there is this one resource used to cast spells with your leaders and make your big things do extra pretty things.

Focus for Warmachine.
- Your leader gets X amount of focus at the start of each round, and spends it on his big things to make them do special things, and/or on casting spells.

Fury for Hordes
- Your leader gets X fury at the start of the first turn, but never again. However, you can poke and prod your warbeasts, make them do stuff, and then THEY get Fury, which, the turn after, can be piled up on the caster. If there's any fury left on the beasts however, there is a very real risk of them becoming, well, furious.

So one spends it on big stuf and spellsf and gets it on caster
The other gets it on the big stuff and transfers it to the caster so that he/she can cast spells


Now, my main advice against cryx would be "Do not despair!"
You will be facing down a LOT of stuff that gets bonuses for boxing living models, but, your models will be bloody hard to box, being the trollbloods that they are -.-
Also, get an army book each, wait with buying the starterpack of your respective armies until you know you want those models. Friend of mine got into cryx, he's using one of the small warjacks from the cryx box for his 35 point list, nothing before that. This is because of him looking at the book again and again, and he's finally started to settle on an army.

The boxes are good to get some quick play going, however, so is going to your local shop whenever there are Warmahordes players around and asking if they could teach you.

Get an army book, see if what's in the box is something that's at least "hey, that's kind of sweet", if it is, go for it, add models to flavour. If the box ISN'T "Kinda sweet", then there's no point getting it over the specific models you want.
I would go out on a limb and say that the Cryx box is good, but once you get their armybook, you are really going to be looking at a whole LOAD of options, there's so much good stuff that isn't in the box, and everything is awesome. Heck, I started Legion when he started Cryx... and now I kinda want a cryx army myself, if only for the look and feel of the army. Mind you! I do not regret my choice! I love my wittle dwagons

But yeah, armybooks first.
Then figure out what you want to go for.
Then buy whatever closest =)
And believe me, you WILL want more than one army within minutes ^^ Even if it is several armies of the same race, you'll go "I wanna build that, and that, and that, and that... and that... OH! That too!" =D

ServantofChaos wrote:
3. is that starter box the way to go? because it isn't always the case in 40k.

If your group is completely new to the game, and you have no other 'vets' to discuss game tactics/builds, then starter boxes are the way to go. The important thing to note here is that the game is not balanced for very low point levels. If someone is losing consistently, like for example the Troll starter box versus the Cryx starter box, they should keep in mind that starter boxes are more about learning the game than they are actually playing the game.

If you're willing to do more 'work' beforehand, go to the Privateer Press WM/H faction community forums and ask for advice on building beginner-level 10-15 pt lists. This will probably give you a better competitive foundation to build off of for larger point games, and you're not limited to a single warlock/warcaster pre-chosen by PP.

5. I've heard it said that army compsision is less important than luck and tactics. Does this mean that there is no such thing as a usless model in this game? In 40 there are some models that I love but are completely usless which is a bummer.

There are models that don't seem 'worth' their point values in WM/H. But not nearly to the same extent as in 40k (lascannon Space Marine Devastators, Flash Gitz, Skyclaw assault squads, the old Daemonhunters codex PAGK) where you just feel stupid because you could be taking something obviously 'better'. List building is important in WM/H (very important), but player skill matters a lot more. Some players are 'so good' that they seem like they can win with nothing but the warcaster of their choice and a baked potato.

Again, research ahead of time can help you find the models that work better together and the models that don't.

Trollbloods are awsome lol but skorne is cool too

Just a note on the rules, the starters come with a basic/quick start rules set to get you going. You'll still want the full rules ( and I agree if only one book make it the Hordes book) but you can get started with what is in the box.

PlusD6 wrote:Trollbloods are awsome lol but skorne is cool too

Not sure if the OP made a decision, but wanted to throw in my thought on the Trollblood and Skorne battleboxes. I like both casters in the battlebox, but use Morghoul in the faction much more than Madrak. Madrak is a little more straight forward, Morghoul can be a little tricky.

On the Trolls side, I have never ever put 2 Impalers on the board, when I'm playing, with the casters I use, I always bring 1 Impaler. On the Skorne side, I always bring the Gladiator, and sometimes a Savage. But, many people (like me) have reposed, given a shield and halberd to the second Savage so it becomes a Brute.

Like the Impaler, I use the Gladiator for 90% of my Skorne lists.

The only other comparisons I can make is that you get a Heavy and 2 Lights with the Skorne, Plus, the Gladiator is a little tricky modeling wise, because on the Titans, their Tusks stick out into 'Reach' range, when the beast has a normal 1/2" melee range. The Trollblood box has 3 lights, the Axer can put out the damage, but cannot take as much as the Gladiator.

As someone that started Hordes with Trolls, I had very little respect for the battlepack. I bought it because it was trolls, and it would give me a start. Originally, I hated Madrak and the beasts (well the Axer was cool).

I love the battlepack now. It's not my go to choice, but I can play and win games with it. It is a very straight forward box, but it can hold it's own... just has a very hard time doing this at low point levels.

I would love the trolls warpack of it dropped an impaler and tossed in a Mauler. That being said, this is exactly what I do whenever someone offers up 15pt games. It's all the trolls I own, but they're pretty fun in these little games.

Kirbinator wrote:I would love the trolls warpack of it dropped an impaler and tossed in a Mauler. That being said, this is exactly what I do whenever someone offers up 15pt games. It's all the trolls I own, but they're pretty fun in these little games.

That's what I used as the basis of my last tournament list. I dropped an impaler, because I wanted something a little beefier, but that journeyman league showed me that the warpack isn't as horrible as I originally though. While I still prefer a little more meat to my Trolls, that slam has helped me out so many times.

ServantofChaos wrote:So I have been playing 40k for about a year. Got the gf into war machine because she loves steam punk stuff. woot! she wants to play crix. Im torn between skorne and trollbloods.

Things that I was wondering:
1. People on forums are saying it is far more balanced than 40k. Is this true?
2. Can GW paint be used for war machine models? I know it can. But does it look right?
3. is that starter box the way to go? because it isn't always the case in 40k.
4. I know the two games are compatable. same rule book? or just the same stat lines?
5. I've heard it said that army compsision is less important than luck and tactics. Does this mean that there is no such thing as a usless model in this game? In 40 there are some models that I love but are completely usless which is a bummer.

Any comments would be greatly appreciated.

1. Yes.
2. Yes.
3. Yes.
4. Yes-ish. Horde and WarMachine are identical except for the Focus and Fury mechanic. A Hordes army can play against a WM army on the same table without any rules changes. But you would need different rulebooks.
5. Yes. There are no useless models. Some do, however, make better cannon fodder. Those tend to be priced accordingly.

Did you truly add more to those questions than was already touched upon?

Yeah its a real shame you don't get a Mauler instead of the second Impaler or something. Just the synergy between the Mauler animus and the Impaler + Madrak's THROWN rule would make their ranged threat that much better.

Factor in that Madrak can't be charged by warbeasts and it would be a pretty decent warpack. A little pricey though. I think with the Mauler it goes to like 14-15 pts.

I wouldn't personally want to get rid of the Axer though, so its really tough to say. It's probably one of those ( more common ) Mk II situations where something is either slightly over or undercosted and then lands on one side of that fence.

14 points

Madrak +6
Impaler: 6
Mauler: 9
Impaler: 5

Not a bad little starter... That was my one gripe during the journeyman league... Everyone had like 13 or 14 points... I was severely underpowered week one... Week two though, I got to add things

ServantofChaos wrote:So I have been playing 40k for about a year. Got the gf into war machine because she loves steam punk stuff. woot! she wants to play crix. Im torn between skorne and trollbloods.

Things that I was wondering:
1. People on forums are saying it is far more balanced than 40k. Is this true?
2. Can GW paint be used for war machine models? I know it can. But does it look right?
3. is that starter box the way to go? because it isn't always the case in 40k.
4. I know the two games are compatable. same rule book? or just the same stat lines?
5. I've heard it said that army compsision is less important than luck and tactics. Does this mean that there is no such thing as a usless model in this game? In 40 there are some models that I love but are completely usless which is a bummer.

Any comments would be greatly appreciated.

1. Yes, without doubt. 40k has a God Tier--Good Tier---Trash Tier present in many armies. WM has a Good Tier--Ok Tier present in almost of their factions. So while there might end up being a 'best' Jack for a particular caster in a particular army--you'll never feel like an idiot for taking another unit--as they're all pretty much good.
2. Personally, I've switched almost entirely to P3 and Vallejo paints. You should really give them a go--and they are faction specific, so why not dabble.
3. I think this depends on the army you want to play. What were you thinking?
4. Different rule books--but once you learn one, it's just a matter of understanding how the Fury mechanic works. We actually have more fun playing Hordes--as it seems more personable (and more fast/furious)--but could be our newbie reflections too.
5. I think the luck portion is much reduced compared to 40k. The probability chart of 2d6 + skill set as opposed to a 1d6 = look at a chart----seems to favor tactics a great deal more. Plus, the interaction with the table top is much higher. Terrain really means something in WM/Hordes and you can interact with it--as opposed to "you get a 4+ and roll 2d6 to move".

ServantofChaos wrote:So I have been playing 40k for about a year. Got the gf into war machine because she loves steam punk stuff. woot! she wants to play crix. Im torn between skorne and trollbloods.

Things that I was wondering:
1. People on forums are saying it is far more balanced than 40k. Is this true?
In so many ways yes. Every faction has solid tricks and way to win. No army feels vastly more powerful than the other. It comes down to the player most the time.
2. Can GW paint be used for war machine models? I know it can. But does it look right?
Absolutely.
3. is that starter box the way to go? because it isn't always the case in 40k.
The Skorne box is pretty good and Troll Bloods isn't bad. The only faction box I'm not a fan of is Legion of everblight and Circle of Orboros because the casters don't mesh well.
4. I know the two games are compatable. same rule book? or just the same stat lines?
You can learn to play the game in 10 mins and making a list to play with isn't math homework. Most list I make are done in under a minute.
5. I've heard it said that army compsision is less important than luck and tactics. Does this mean that there is no such thing as a usless model in this game? In 40 there are some models that I love but are completely usless which is a bummer.
I haven't really seen a stat card where I thought the model was a complete waste of points and couldn't be working into any list. Basically it feels like you're playing a group of competent men, monsters and machines quote]

i used to play 40K before i decided to boycott them cos of their prices,
1.its true that warmachine is far more balenced.
2. i used the rest of my GW paints for warmachine and i have had no complaints
3. if you want to do Khador or MEnoth get the starter box, any other get the battle boxes
4. warmachine and hordes are compatible
5. whatever units you put on the table you will have a chance of winning

GOOD LUCK