Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

My basic list is 5m purifier squads w/ 2 psycannons each riding in rhinos w/ dakka dread long range support (and Crowe looking awesome).

My CC squad that rolls in a LRC is comprised of a Libby and 10 Purifiers, 8 carrying Falchions, 1 w/ warding stave and 1 w/ a hammer.

The libby's current powers are Quicksilver, Might of Titan, Warp Rift, Sanct and Shrouding.

Now my question is, should I drop Warp Rift and replace it with something else (or just save myself 5 pts)? I bring this up because I typically pop Quicksilver/MoT during my turn and Sanct/Shrouding during my opponent's. I picked up Warp Rift originally as a way to cut down a couple of nilla SM TH/SS squads (don't have to bother w/ QS to attack before them) that I always seem to get to and need to soften up before the falchions can rip them up. The problem is that other then these squads I've really never seen much of a use for it. Its other decent use is putting a pen on a vehicle, but the Psycannons and Psyflemans are usually capable of opening up any tin cans before I reach them, and if not MoT will decimate anything still standing. Anyhow I appreciate any advice, thanks!

I assume you want the staff for ound allocation but why only one hammer? thats 2-3 attacks only. If your squad gets into cc with something like a furioso you would maybe get 1 hit a turn.

Warp Rift is often useful against orks (watch the face of the orkish player as you target his Thrakull led nobz - this will often make the difference between wiping the unit and having to suffer some power claw attacks after you've charged) and it's useful auxiliary firepower against higher AV transports where really you want to break it open with fire and (hopefully) charge the contents. And as you say, against terminators at times too - especially if there's a nasty character attached - sure, you won't always get him as characters tend to have decent initiative. But when you do... priceless. I certainly don't use it every game (like I don't use Quicksilver every game) but it's worth having on a Librarian unless you really, really need to spend 10 points elsewhere.

Swap the falchions to halberds if you want to save points, I think.

If your squad gets into cc with something like a furioso you would maybe get 1 hit a turn.

Well not if Might of Titan is cast (2/3 chance against a hood).

You could use death cult assassins the way hes using falchions for a lot less and have more models for the attack back since neither has an invuln.

Then you'd have to drop the Librarian.

Whilst I don't mixing terminator armoured models and power armoured ones works terribly well for GK, and I think a Crowe/Purifier/Dreadnought list works best as pure light armour MSU backed with a firing platform and no characters bar Crowe, the Librarian seems an important part of the OP's thinking - Indeed crucial as a landraider will often struggle to get up the table without Shrouding.

A Librarian does not add that much to your army for the points that you are spending on him.

You are better off just dropping him.

Draigo wrote:I assume you want the staff for ound allocation but why only one hammer? thats 2-3 attacks only. If your squad gets into cc with something like a furioso you would maybe get 1 hit a turn.

Well against Furioso's I'm currently 4-0 with the falchion squad. 38 attacks at I10 Str6+2D6 against the front 13 armour. My wife hates me for it and prefers to either chase my smaller 5m squads or try and assault the falchions once they are already locked in combat. Typically they finish each assault in one round and then consolidate behind the cover of the LRC and Rhinos, add in Sanctuary and many units cannot even assault them, or if they do they strike at I1 due to difficult terrain

Blackmoor wrote:A Librarian does not add that much to your army for the points that you are spending on him.

You are better off just dropping him.

My LRC and the nearby Rhinos have a 3+ cover while moving up table due to Shrouding. The Falchion squad assaults are insane and destroy almost anything due to QS/MoT. Sanctuary prevents/hinders retaliation assaults. For his points he's destroyed so many units well above the price of him+purifiers.

Draigo wrote:You could use death cult assassins the way hes using falchions for a lot less and have more models for the attack back since neither has an invuln.

I actually ran w/ DCA/Crusaders for a few months. The problems I encountered with them is that 1) To take them I have to drop the libby or crowe. If I drop Crowe the purifiers are no longer my troops and if I drop the Libby I lose the amazing abilities that I "need" to make the squad perform the rolls I require of them. 2) When I did run the DCA and I lost the LRC (sadly it happens even with the 3+ cover) they are now going to get eaten by gun fire (5++ isn't that great and Crusaders can only take so many shots) or they will have to assault through difficult terrain and strike last.

Artemo wrote:Swap the falchions to halberds if you want to save points, I think

I'm not hurting for points, really by saving the 5 points I'll probably just toss it into a Mastercrafted weapon for a KoTF. The problem i've encountered with it is that I run into situations where I look at a squad I'm about to assault and think "Hmm I can remove 2 of these I4 models if this hits 6 and then (number crunching) I'll have a higher chance of walking away from this." Then I end up using it and nothing dies and now I've missed out on an additional HH/MoT and kick myself. So I'm not sure if I should remove the ability or just have it listed and continually remind myself that it's an unlucky ability for me and only to use it against I3 or lower enemies, but at that point they attack so late I probably saved QS and have a free ability. I was hoping a fellow Libby user might have an alternative ability that has had some good results. I've tried smite/Vortex (enjoyed vortex until I failed a test...)

The best three Librarian powers are:

Might, Sanctuary and The Shrouding. Some builds make more use out of these powers than others but they're consistently the most useful regardless of build.

The next two best are:

Quicksilver and Warp Rift. These are more situational and sometimes prove worthless in a given game (Quicksilver is pointless versus Orks, Warp Rift almost so against varieties of Space Fairies). Warp Rift is chancy, and the -1 on the damage table rolls doesn't help. But it can be used against both troops and vehicles and being a template can often catch more than one unit if the Librarian is well positioned.

Next best is Dark Excommunication. Even more situational, being of use against only a few armies. This is one I'd take in a competition list if I had 5 points spare just because it can actually prove very useful indeed and there's not much else that 5 pts would benefit my army. But it's never my choice before any of the other 5.

The other powers are pretty unimpressive. Summoning would potentially be very useful if it worked with teleport homers or just didn't scatter, but it doesn't and does, so it isn't. Vortex is good until you take perils. then it's terrible. the risk is just too great to chance it given how expensive and key the Librarian is. Smite is of some marginal use against armoured targets but in almost all cases Warp Rift will cause as many or more casualties.

I regard a Librarian as almost essential to a paladin or terminator list. For a power-armoured list, as I say, I'm not so sure. But if you're running him then you already have the best powers.

I always take Might of Titan, Shrouding, and Quicksilver. Other powers as I need them.

The lvl3 upgrade is good if you don't have other things to buy. Its always nasty when you get MoT, hammerhand, and Quicksilver on your dudes. and then you can either go for hammerhand again OR Force weapon. Str6+2D6 armor penetration and Instant Death or Str7+2D6.

I like the libby with dca or termies. Since with termies that negates the need for the halberd and increes the invuln of an expensive squad in cc. But if certain stuff works for ya rock on and don't worry bout changing anything because I have seen the shrouding 3+ save many a vehicle lol

Additional powers are cheap too so it isn't like its hard to get a good quantity of the powers you might need.

Artemo wrote:The best three Librarian powers are:

Might, Sanctuary and The Shrouding. Some builds make more use out of these powers than others but they're consistently the most useful regardless of build.

I regard a Librarian as almost essential to a paladin or terminator list. For a power-armoured list, as I say, I'm not so sure. But if you're running him then you already have the best powers.

This is the truth right here. You have the three powers that you have to take and all of the other powers are optional.

But really in your list a Librarian does not add a lot that halberds and an Inquisitor with grenades can't and you would save 150 points.

Blackmoor wrote:But really in your list a Librarian does not add a lot that halberds and an Inquisitor with grenades can't and you would save 150 points.

Inquisitor with psykotroke/rads/HH still doesn't make the squad useful against walkers or high AV vehicles. Most would say this is when Psycannons come into play, but you can math hammer them into the equation and you'll see they actually have a small chance to get pens against said vehicles. This is where my libby/falchion squad comes into play. They have killed dreadnoughts/LR/Kan walls and practically any other high value or hard to kill target that my opponents place on the field. If the squad had halberds they would lose too many attacks for what I require of them, and w/o the libby they would be limited to anti personal/MC and rely on a hammer or two to deal with the walkers that would now be able to kill a few of them.

#1. What do you do when you get charged by a purifier squad with Halberds?
#2. If you think a good use of Purifiers with Falchions is to kill high AV vehicles, I do not know what to tell you.

1) Why would I be getting charged by a halberd squad? If sanctuary doesn't hold them back or kill a couple then i'll typically be facing 2-3 halberds per squad, so they will most likely cause 2 wounds on the charge, one of which will get eaten by a warding stave. Also if I'm being assault by another GK my I drops to 1 anyhow due to psyk-out nades. So why not retaliate with more attacks?
2) I've heard many players at local stores and tourneys say the same thing (apparently if I'm not playing my 6m purifier squads w/ 2 cannons it's a crime against GK law), then lose 500+ pts in units to this single squad and call me a cheeser for the rest of the day. The other great thing about the squad is due to size and number of attacks they can assault 2 10m halberd squads on the charge and take them out (the Halberds are now I1 so no need to waste my QS).