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Hey everyone! This is my first time posting on this board, been a sometime lurker for a while now. I'm pretty new to the 40k tabletop - I've only played a few games, using the armies of friends. I've played a few games using my buddy's Necron army list, and I love it! I find myself in a position where i can ask for some units for Christmas and get a start on building my own army, so I'm looking for advice on the list I've put together. I've never put together an army before, so I'm quite frankly expecting to get quite a lot criticism, but I'm okay with that as it will help me get better in the future. So without further ado:

HQ
2 x Destroyer Lord (310 pts)
- Resurrection Orb x 2
- Warscythe x 2

Elite
Flayed Ones x 10 (130 pts)
Flayed Ones x 10 (130 pts)

Troop
Warriors x 5 (65 pts)
Warriors x 5 (65 pts)
Warriors x 5 (65 pts)
Warriors x 5 (65 pts)
Warriors x 5 (65 pts)

Fast Attack
Wraiths x 5 (205 pts)
- 3 Whip Coils
Wraiths x 5 (205 pts)
- 3 Whip Coils
Scarabs x 6 (90 pts)

Heavy Support
Monolith x 3 (600 pts)

The Premise:
The idea is that each Destroyer Lord buddies up with a pack of Wraiths, then advances up the field alongside the Scarabs. The first Monolith advances with the Scarabs and Wraiths (and ideally draws enemy fire away from the Wraiths). The other two Monoliths Deep-Strike on the enemy side of the board (scattering formations and disgorging Flayed Ones, then opening up with death lasers). The Warriors spread out to take objectives and cover each other. I went with smaller squads of Warriors because it just seemed like a smarter idea: I mean, if one squad gets tied up in melee, that's 5 Warriors that can't shoot instead of 10 or 20. And if they're facing close combat monsters like Assault Terminators they'll probably get mopped up and I'll have at least a chance of shooting with my other squads.

Concerns:
- Based on my (admittedly limited) understanding of the rules, it seems like this list will be pretty weak against vehicles.
- I was seriously considering adding Imotekh the Stormlord, but it's a tough call for me. On the one hand, the Destroyer Lords get to re-roll hits, they're giving the Wraiths a 4+ Reanimation Protocols, and they're one of the only units in my list with a shot against vehicles (Warscythes). On the other hand, Imotekh gets Night-Fighting guaranteed on the first round, and has a solid chance of carrying it through at least to Round 3 (less shooting at my melee guys). He also gets a chance at zapping every unengaged enemy units while 'storm' is in effect, and I can get him either a Catacomb Command Barge or a Royal Court. Overlooking his special rules though, his base statline seems lackluster, and he's expensive at 225 pts.
- I know melee is not the Necron's strongest suit, but the rules (at least from what I've seen) seem to favor melee. I'd be happy to be proven wrong!

Now! With all of that being said, I would love to see comments or concerns, and a healthy dose of criticism. I've got time yet to put the list together and I would love to hear everyone's input!

Heya and welcome to 40k. Not too bad for a first list, but there are two (maybe three) big glaring flaws that I see that are common begginer mistakes:

1) No Ranged Anti-Vehicle: This is going to hurt you a lot. You need someway to reliably open up transports so your wraiths and scarabs can get to the squishy bits inside.
2) Easy Target Prioritization for the Enemy: You've pretty much made the decision for the opponent at how he should attack you (Monoliths get ignored for the first turn or two, S8+ will be shot at the wraiths, S6-7 will be shot at the scarabs. S5 and lower will be shot at the warriors.
3) No Solar Pulse. In this list you're going to need it.


An overall....I dunno.....it just feel all that threatening (this coming from a Nid and IG player)

Before looking at the list I'll hit your comments at the bottom.

The Premise:
The idea is that each Destroyer Lord buddies up with a pack of Wraiths, then advances up the field alongside the Scarabs. The first Monolith advances with the Scarabs and Wraiths (and ideally draws enemy fire away from the Wraiths).

Thanks for the tips, Nungunz! I did have a couple of questions, though....

Page 90 of the Necron Codex says "Any number of Crypteks that are in a Royal Court can be upgraded to a single, specific type o Harbinger. Whilst you can have any number of Harbingers of a specific type, each of the Harbinger's unique wargear options can only be chosen once in each Royal Court (see page 84)." Doesn't that mean that I can only have one Solar Pulse, since I only have one Royal Court (tied to the Overlord)?

Regarding the Gauss Flux Arcs on the Monolith, page 81 of the Codex says that "A Gauss Flux Arc can be fired at a different target unit to other weapons on the vehicle (including other gauss flux arcs) subject to the normal rules for shooting." I had read this as saying that I could fire all of my Flux Arcs as long as I could line up a target for each one, or did I misinterpret this?

Again, thanks for the help and advice!

PrinceOfMadness wrote: Doesn't that mean that I can only have one Solar Pulse, since I only have one Royal Court (tied to the Overlord)?

Yeah. A second Overlord can unlock a second court for a maximum of two in the army.

I had read this as saying that I could fire all of my Flux Arcs as long as I could line up a target for each one, or did I misinterpret this?

Correct, but the Flux Arcs have a very limited traverse so unless you have a lot of enemies around you you'll probably only get to shoot with two of them at a time.

Okay, so after taking into account Nungunz' advice and looking at a couple of other lists, it's clear that I need...moar dakka. I took a list from Librarium-Online and made some heavy modifications to it, here goes:

HQ:
Imotekh the Stormlord (355 pts)
Cryptec - Harbinger of Eternity
- Aeonstave
- Chronometron
Cryptec - Harbinger of Destruction
- Eldritch Lance
- Solar Pulse
Cryptec - Harbinger of Destruction
- Eldritch Lance

Necron Overlord (310 pts)
- Warscythe
- Catacomb Command Barge (Gauss Cannon)
Cryptec - Harbinger of Eternity
- Aeonstave
- Chronometron
Cryptec - Harbinger of Destruction
- Eldritch Lance
- Solar Pulse
Cryptec - Harbinger of Destruction
- Eldritch Lance

Elite:
9 x Flayed Ones (167 pts)

Triarch Stalker (150 pts)
- Heat Ray

Troops:
5 x Necron Warriors (180 pts)
- Ghost Ark

5 x Necron Warriors (180 pts)
- Ghost Ark

5 x Necron Warriors (180 pts)
- Ghost Ark

Heavy Support:
Doom Scythe (175 pts)
Doom Scythe (175 pts)
Doomsday Ark (175 pts)

Total Points: 1997

The Idea:
First turn is guaranteed Night Fighting via Imotekh, so I can more or less place units with impunity. Imotekh and the Harbingers of Eternity pile into a Ghost Ark with Warriors. Two Harbingers of Destruction each join the other two Ghost Arks. Flayed Ones are placed in reserve and will try to maul whatever got infested with the nanoscarabs. I can use the Solar Pulses to drop Night Fighting for my own turn (is that how it works? Is it just my turn? Does Imotekh's lightning still generate?) and I can do it twice. Ghost Arks launch broadsides of gauss flayer spam coupled with 4 S8 AP2 shots from the Harbingers of Destruction. If a Ghost Ark goes down one or both of the others move to reinforce/regenerate Warriors. Overlord goes nuts with the CCB and Warscythe. Triarch Stalker advances with the Doom Scythes so I can get twin-linked death rays (random thought - dispersed heat ray doesn't roll to hit, but I still count as having hit...so whatever I hit with the dispersed beam now counts all my other shots as being twin-linked). Doomsday Ark kicks back and launches devastating barrages across the battlefield. Imotekh can use the Chronometrons to re-roll Night-Fighting, lightning bolts, or anything else he may need. Quantum Shielding means all my vehicles are AV 13 all around until they take a penetrating hit, so I've got fair armor, but open-topped is sad for my Stalker

Weaknesses:
- Close Combat
- Flayed Ones seem a weak link here...Only unit not in armor is gonna draw priority from small arms fire, and they can't assault out of Deep Strike, so dropping next to a unit gives that unit a chance to run away (if shooty) or charge (if stabby). Initiative 2 hurts in close combat. I guess I could swap them out for more warriors to pad out my Ghost Arks
- Open-Topped. It's nice on the Ghost Arks because it lets the warriors add their own guns for maximum carnage - not so nice on the Doomsday Ark/Triarch Stalker

Comments/Concerns?

You're really stuck on keeping those Flayed Ones, aren't you?
;P

Anyway, it seems like a bit of a waste to have only 5 Warriors with a Ghost Ark. Arks benefit massive chunks of Warriors, just five and... i dunno. I think you might have been better off with the Night Scythe spam. (yes, having one for your Court to ride around in will give them cover while letting them shoot, but three? *shrug*)

All that being said, it's not necessarily a list guaranteed to fail.

skoffs wrote:You're really stuck on keeping those Flayed Ones, aren't you?
;P

Anyway, it seems like a bit of a waste to have only 5 Warriors with a Ghost Ark. Arks benefit massive chunks of Warriors, just five and... i dunno. I think you might have been better off with the Night Scythe spam. (yes, having one for your Court to ride around in will give them cover while letting them shoot, but three? *shrug*)

All that being said, it's not necessarily a list guaranteed to fail.

Flayed Ones are one of the best buys in the dex, the only credible knock against them is the current models are a bit janky.

Improving the anti-tank is a good take, however I disagree with Nunz assessment of the Monolith. If you point a corner at the core of the enemies formation it is not hard at all to get 3 GFA's pointed at them. The ability to stun three tanks at once, as well as bomb one big threat, as well as scare CC units away with its mischievous looking vacuum, plus the ability to rapidly redeploy troops, make it a frikken steal for 200 points.

Not to mention it is the only "true" AV over 11 (14 at that) in the whole dex.

Actually, having just looked at the Flayed Ones Codex entry again, I'm substantially less impressed with them. Yes, they get 3 attacks (4 on a charge) but they're stuck in one place on the turn they Deep Strike, don't get any special rules on their primary attacks (for example, the Gauss quality that makes Warriors so awesome), and I don't get to pick which unit gets infested with the Bloodswarm Nanoscarabs. Against, say, Imperial Guard that doesn't matter so much, but against Space Marines, it makes a big deal whether the infested unit is a squad of Scouts...or Assault Termies. Plus, as I mentioned earlier, they're gonna be really squishy without their own vehicle.

Also took another look at the Monolith. After some thought, it seems it might be a better investment than the Doomsday Ark. The Monolith is significantly tougher (AV 14 and 5 guns to destroy, which can each target independently), has more versatility, and it has incentive to advance with the rest of my vehicles, or the survivability to Deep Strike on its lonesome. The Doomsday Ark...gets a bigger gun. It's faster, yeah, but you don't want to be moving around too much with a Doomsday Ark.

With that in mind I modified the list a bit, swapping the Ark for a Monolith and swapping the Flayed Ones for more Warriors.

HQ:
Imotekh the Stormlord (355 pts)
Cryptec - Harbinger of Eternity
- Aeonstave
- Chronometron
Cryptec - Harbinger of Destruction
- Eldritch Lance
- Solar Pulse
Cryptec - Harbinger of Destruction
- Eldritch Lance

Necron Overlord (310 pts)
- Warscythe
- Catacomb Command Barge (Gauss Cannon)
Cryptec - Harbinger of Eternity
- Aeonstave
- Chronometron
Cryptec - Harbinger of Destruction
- Eldritch Lance
- Solar Pulse
Cryptec - Harbinger of Destruction
- Eldritch Lance

Elite:
Triarch Stalker (150 pts)
- Heat Ray

Troops:
7 x Necron Warriors (206 pts)
- Ghost Ark

7 x Necron Warriors (206 pts)
- Ghost Ark

7 x Necron Warriors (206 pts)
- Ghost Ark

Heavy Support:
Doom Scythe (175 pts)
Doom Scythe (175 pts)
Monolith (200 pts)

Total Points: 1983

I've still got 17 points to play around with...could go either to another Warrior for the Arks, or a piece of Wargear. Personally, I'm leaning towards a Phylactery for my Necron Overlord, but what do you guys think? Better? Worse? Needing more dakka?

the problem with the above list (and others that some people make) is that you can't have different types of harbringers in the same court. All of the crypteks in each court have to be a mix of A) vanilla no upgrade crypteks, or B) a single type. This being said, you could have 1 court that has a couple of harbringers of eternity (and thus 1x chrometron) and another court with the harbringers of destruction, but not mixing them in the fashion you did. I wish it was different, but then you could get 2x of all the toys from each harbringer twice. I don't see a problem with this, since the guys would cost so much, but they're probably cost around the idea that you can't.

Also the above list has the warriors + arks costed at the wrong amount (should be 206 pts for 7x of them). I like the idea, but I'd probably remove one of the ghost arks and footslog a larger warrior squad with 2x harbringers of dest behind, with 2x or so supporting arks repairing while gvng them cover. If you put a lot of the juicy stuff in the bigger squad of warriors, you might trick an opponent into wasting shots into them while they're getting repaired!

I actually don't hate some of the ideas from the original list. The Destroyer Lords are interesting, but I think you need at least one Overlord to gain the Solar Pulse. Here's an idea that keeps the Flayed Ones and still has mobile Lords (the CCB is nasty):

Overlord w Scythe, Tac Arrow, Barge -180
Overlord w Scythe, Tac Arrow, Barge -180
Court- 2 Crypteks, HoD- 1 with Pulse, 1 Lord with Scythe, Shackle Scarabs-150
Court- 2 Crypteks, HoD- 1 with Pulse, 1 Lord with Scythe, Schakle Scarabs- 150 1936

12 Flayed Ones-156
12 Flayed Ones-156

Immortals-7, telsa-119
Immortals-7, telsa-119
Immortals-7, telsa-119
Immortals-7, telsa-119

Wraiths 5, 2 whip coils-195
Wraiths 5, 2 whip coils-195
10 Scarabs-150

Total:1988 (add in something or tweak this rough draft)

This way you keep the Flayed Ones, mobile Lords, Scarabs, and Wraiths from your original list. You have two Solar Pulses for night fight cover (opponents turn only). The Flayed Ones take an attached Lord and infiltrate or outflank and the rest can move up. The crypteks can disperse into the Immortal squads (which should go unmolested due to the other threats). Is this list perfect? By no means. Is it more in line with the original? You bet.

abbazabba1920 wrote:the problem with the above list (and others that some people make) is that you can't have different types of harbringers in the same court. All of the crypteks in each court have to be a mix of A) vanilla no upgrade crypteks, or B) a single type. This being said, you could have 1 court that has a couple of harbringers of eternity (and thus 1x chrometron) and another court with the harbringers of destruction, but not mixing them in the fashion you did. I wish it was different, but then you could get 2x of all the toys from each harbringer twice. I don't see a problem with this, since the guys would cost so much, but they're probably cost around the idea that you can't.

Where does it say this? Pg 90 says "Any number of Crypteks that are in a Royal Court can be upgraded to a single, specific type of Harbinger. Whilst you can have any number of Harbingers of a specific type, each of the Harbinger's unique wargear options can only be chosen once in each Royal Court (see page 84)." The way I'm reading this is that each Cryptek can be upgraded to one, and only one, type of Harbinger. Each Cryptek can take as much of his specialty's wargear as he likes, but that wargear is unique to that Court (so no more than say, one Chronometron per Court. Also, staffs are classified as weapons and don't count against this total.)

abbazabba1920 wrote:Also the above list has the warriors + arks costed at the wrong amount (should be 206 pts for 7x of them).

Oh, you're right! I forgot to update the cost of the Warriors. Original post has been updated.

Edited for clarity

Your correct PoM, he is wrong. A court can definitely have more then one type of tek.


I like JGrand's suggestions, only problem I see is Lords can't be attached to FO's (God I wish they could, I'd field three groups of 20 with ResORb Lords ).

I like JGrand's suggestions, only problem I see is Lords can't be attached to FO's (God I wish they could, I'd field three groups of 20 with ResORb Lords ).

Just saw that. That's a shame. It would have made them actually viable.

hmm, i got called on it in a tournament, but I think you're right! I just don't think it's too clear. The way the guy was explaining it to me was that you can upgrade any number of the crypteks in a respective court to a single type (ie. all as destruction). I'll have to mull it over some more, but your logic seems sound, as well..... sigh.

abbazabba1920 wrote:hmm, i got called on it in a tournament, but I think you're right! I just don't think it's too clear. The way the guy was explaining it to me was that you can upgrade any number of the crypteks in a respective court to a single type (ie. all as destruction). I'll have to mull it over some more, but your logic seems sound, as well..... sigh.

No restrictions on the type of harbingers in a squad. Just a restriction on the unique options.

Wow, JGrand is right..I really got derailed from my original idea. I still like the previous list I posted, and that's probably what I'm going to start working towards, but it can only be to my benefit to come up with a stabby 'Cron list, as 'Crons are likely to be my only army for a while (due to being a broke college student working a minimum wage job). So, with that being said, what's everyone think of this list?

2 Necron Overlords (650 pts), each with:
- Catacomb Command Barge (Gauss Cannon)
- Warscythe
- Phylactery
- Harbinger of Destruction
- - Eldritch Lance
- - Solar Pulse
- Necron Lord
- - Warscythe
- - Resurrection Orb

20 Flayed Ones [2 squads of 10] (260 pts)

20 Necron Warriors [2 squads of 10] (260 pts)

12 Canoptek Wraiths [2 squads of 6] (480 pts)
- 3 Whip Coils per squad

10 Canoptek Scarabs (150 pts)

4 Canoptek Spyders [2 squads of 2] (200 pts)

Total: 2000 pts

Solar Pulse to move up under cover of Night Fighting, Flayed Ones Infiltrate or Deep Strike, depending on circumstances. Each Warrior squad gets a Harbinger of Destruction and a ResLord. Primary anti-tank duties go to the HoD's, Spyders, and Scarabs, though Warriors will certainly attempt to glance to death if they can. If there's no tanks then Scarabs will go off and annoy a squad until the end of the game, while Spyders split up to wreak havoc the way only a Monstrous Creature can.

The biggest problem I'm personally seeing is the same problem the last list had - anti-tank weapons, or the lack thereof. Unfortunately, most Necron anti-tank is ranged. Only Necron melee units that are much good against tanks are the Scarabs, Spyders, and C'Tan. I'm not a big fan of the current C'Tan, so I packed in as many Scarabs as I could work around my Wraiths, and as many Spyders as I had leftover points for. I seriously considered dropping the Flayed Ones to increase my Warrior's survivability either by increasing the size of my Warrior squads or by sticking them in Night Scythes/Ghost Arks. Somewhat random thought - Night Scythes just don't seem worth taking for Warriors, when the Ghost Ark is tougher (Quantum Shielding), has more guns (particularly since the Warriors can shoot out the sides), and can repair Warriors who bombed their Reanimation Protocols roll. Only reason I could see for putting Warriors in a Night Scythe is if you have a LOT of Warriors.

Anyway, thoughts?

If you're taking Lords with Warscythes rather than Staff of Light, I assume for some CC punch if it comes to that, then you should definitely take Mindshackle Scarabs on each Lord. Get rid of Phylactery from the Overlords to pay for this. You've got a 1 in 3 chance of the Overlord getting up from Ever-Living, and then you've only got a 1 in 3 chance of Phylactery having any effect at all. For a 1 in 9 chance of anything happening, you can find a better use for your 30 points. Like Mindshackle Scarabs on your Lords.

And I would find a way to add a second Harbinger of Destruction to each of your Warrior squads. I cannot stress enough how amazing Harbingers of Destruction are at only 35 points each.

Oh, and kit out your Wraiths with different gear. In each squad of 6, give one Wraith a Whip Coil and Caster, give one a Whip coil and Beamer, give one just a whip coil, give one nothing, give one just a Caster and give one just a Beamer. That way you can allocate wounds to keep them alive much longer.

Of course, all of these suggestions get costly. I know you seem to be attached to the Flayed Ones, but they'd be the first on my chopping block.

JGrand wrote:

I like JGrand's suggestions, only problem I see is Lords can't be attached to FO's (God I wish they could, I'd field three groups of 20 with ResORb Lords ).

Just saw that. That's a shame. It would have made them actually viable.

JGrand

They are still viable. Point for point they are one of the best CC units in the game (during the assault phase). They suffer mainly from manoeuvrability, which is some what mitigated by there very open deployment options, and the fact that for there price they can be used very effectively as a CC deterring bubble wrap.

3 S4 attack base for 13pts a model is a steal. They don't need pw when they can torrent like that. Also 4+/RP5+ makes them viable against any cc unit. They simply dominate some of the more elite CC units like TH/SS termies.

ShadarLogoth wrote:3 S4 attack base for 13pts a model is a steal. They don't need pw when they can torrent like that. Also 4+/RP5+ makes them viable against any cc unit. They simply dominate some of the more elite CC units like TH/SS termies.

The problem is the I2. Against a small unit of combat marines, you're going to run into problems:

Tonight's Fight: 6x Combat Marines versus 6x Flayed Ones

Round 1: Even Strength
6 combat marines will have 19 attacks on the charge. (3 per model, 4 from the sergeant)
Hitting on 4+ means 9.5 successful hits.
Wounding on 4+ means 4.75 successful wounds.
Armour saves on 4+ means 2.38 dead Flayed Ones.

3 Flayed Ones will return with 9 attacks.
Hitting on 4+ means 4.5 successful hits.
Wounding on 4+ means 2.25 successful wounds.
Armour saves on 3+ means 0.75 dead combat marines.

Let's assume the Flayed Ones pass their Ld test.

1 Flayed One gets back up, 2 do not.

Round 2: 5 Combat Marines Versus 4 Flayed Ones
5 Combat marines will have 11 attacks. (2 per model, 3 from the sergeant)
Hitting on 4+ means 5.5 successful hits.
Wounding on 4+ means 2.75 successful wounds.
Armour saves on 4+ means 1.38 dead Flayed Ones.

2 Flayed ones will have 6 attacks.
Hitting on 4+ means 3 successful hits.
Wounding on 4+ means 1.5 successful wounds.
Armour saves on 3+ means 0.5 dead combat marines.

Let's assume the Flayed Ones pass their Ld test.

1 Flayed One gets back up, 1 does not.

Round 3: 4 Combat Marines Versus 3 Flayed Ones
4 Combat marines will have 9 attacks. (2 per model, 3 from the sergeant)
Hitting on 4+ means 4.5 successful hits.
Wounding on 4+ means 2.25 successful wounds.
Armour saves on 4+ means 1.13 dead Flayed Ones.

1 Flayed One will have 3 attacks.
Hitting on 4+ means 1.5 successful hits.
Wounding on 4+ means 0.75 successful wounds.
Armour saves on 3+ means 0.25 dead combat marines.

Let's assume the Flayed Ones pass their Ld test.

1 Flayed One gets back up, 1 does not.

Round 4: 3 Combat Marines Versus 2 Flayed Ones
3 Combat marines will have 7 attacks. (2 per model, 3 from the sergeant)
Hitting on 4+ means 3.5 successful hits.
Wounding on 4+ means 1.75 successful wounds.
Armour saves on 4+ means 0.88 dead Flayed Ones.

1 Flayed ones will have 3 attacks.
Hitting on 4+ means 1.5 successful hits.
Wounding on 4+ means 0.75 successful wounds.
Armour saves on 3+ means 0.25 dead combat marines.

I'm going to stop here. Now, in my example, I rounded all unsaved wounds up to the next whole number. The reason I did this is because if the average is even 1.00001, then the average is more than one: it is 2. You can't have even a tenth of a singe-wound model. This same practice went towards the RP of the Flayed Ones, because you cannot have .35 of a Flayed One stand back up. If the average is more than 0, but less than 1, then it is 1.

So here we saw even-strength squads of Combat Marines and Flayed Ones. It is important to note that I did not give the Combat Marines any power weapons or PFs, which would dramatically increase the wounds being delivered to the Flayed Ones. So, with the Marines being as vanilla as they can be, the result is that Flayed Ones are a slowly but steadily dying tar pit to the most basic MEQ troop possible. I didn't even bother showing you what happens against Terminators, because it would be very unlikely that the Flayed Ones would pass their first Ld test, and just get swept.

This is why I dislike Flayed Ones. Why bother wasting an Elite FOC slot on something that can barely tar-pit a Troop unit? Worse still, is that unless that Troop unit is completely lacking any wargear -which I have never ever seen- they will not even be able to perform this task. The only way that Flayed Ones are a viable option, is when the Flayed Ones significantly outnumber their opposing unit. Now, if you make the comparison in points rather than in numbers of models, then Flayed Ones would actually get a 7th man against 6x Combat Marines. However, this will not skew the results in any way due to my practice of rounding up to whole numbers. It will just allow the Flayed Ones to tar-pit for one extra turn. And again, tar-pitting basic troops is a waste.

Now, there is one element that I did not mention here, and it is heavily against the Flayed Ones: normally, the Flayed Ones would be shot by the pistols of the Combat Marines prior to being assaulted. They would lose 1 Flayed One, and on average would not stand up again prior to the assault.

The reason I say that Flayed Ones will normally get assaulted, is because I assume that they are deepstriking into play, and thus cannot assault on their own. Otherwise, they are just footslogging, and will be very useless just trudging across the board in that fashion as they have no dedicated transports, as the opponent will definitely shoot the Hell out of your dedicated CC unit if s/he can.

For their cost, you're better off taking more Warriors. They can at least bring Crypteks or Lords with them, take transports and hold objectives. Flayed ones have only one redeeming benefit that I can see: their old, metal models were some of the coolest looking models in 40k.

DR;TL



JK, but the problem with your above scenario is 6 combat marines != 6 Flayed ones in points.

Find the common denominator between the two and redo the math. The FO's will come out on top.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
After reading over your post, I see you did mention the points, but then wrote it off. It makes a difference.

Also you just assumed Terms would do better. Your wrong. 5 TH/SS versus 15 Flayed ones, giving the Termies the assault, the FO's win, and it's not even close. Also go ahead and add power weapons, sergeants, etc to your marines. Then add the appropriate amount of models to the FOs. The FO's will come out on top. This is because FO's have an inherent protection against special weapons with RP.

Ok, to be fair, the TH/SS termies do win the first round of CC by 2, so their is a small chance they get swept. After the first round the FO's win easily. If by some miracle the FO's get the charge, they win easily.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Sorry, just call me Mister Addendum.

You make some strong assumptions with your calculations. In reality if you average 2.0000001 wounds per turn 99.99999% of the time you are only going to kill 2. Assuming you always will tend to kill three is bad Math hammer. When I do these I tend to just carry the fraction for the remainder of the fight. Your calculating tendencies, so it's perfectly reasonable ( and much, much more accurate to real world scenarios) to just carry the fractions over till combat is resolved.

Disclaimer: I'm still new to the game. These are my own thoughts and opinions, NOT facts, though they are (generally) based on observations from my own play experiences and looking through the Necron Codex/core rulebook.

azazel the cat wrote:If you're taking Lords with Warscythes rather than Staff of Light, I assume for some CC punch if it comes to that, then you should definitely take Mindshackle Scarabs on each Lord. Get rid of Phylactery from the Overlords to pay for this. You've got a 1 in 3 chance of the Overlord getting up from Ever-Living, and then you've only got a 1 in 3 chance of Phylactery having any effect at all. For a 1 in 9 chance of anything happening, you can find a better use for your 30 points. Like Mindshackle Scarabs on your Lords.

Hrm. I hadn't thought of it in quite that way. You're right, the Phylactery seems kind of chancy. I don't know if I'm quite sold on the Scarabs though - they seem chancy as well (at least against high Ld models it would be nice against). Maybe I should put those points to units instead, or a Sempiternal Weave.

azazel the cat wrote:And I would find a way to add a second Harbinger of Destruction to each of your Warrior squads. I cannot stress enough how amazing Harbingers of Destruction are at only 35 points each.

If I can find the points for it. The idea of the list is to be mostly melee-oriented (kind of a thought experiment, if you will) but it couldn't hurt to have a little more anti-tank.

azazel the cat wrote:Oh, and kit out your Wraiths with different gear. In each squad of 6, give one Wraith a Whip Coil and Caster, give one a Whip coil and Beamer, give one just a whip coil, give one nothing, give one just a Caster and give one just a Beamer. That way you can allocate wounds to keep them alive much longer.

You can't do that the way you described. Wraiths can only take 1 piece of wargear each. At best, you could do one Caster, one Beamer, one with nothing, and three with Coils (or one with coils and three with nothing). A Transdimensional Beamer may only be 15 points, but it's a Heavy weapon, so can't Assault after firing...don't see much reason to take it with Wraiths unless I were to outfit the entire squad with them.

azazel the cat wrote:Of course, all of these suggestions get costly. I know you seem to be attached to the Flayed Ones, but they'd be the first on my chopping block.

The thing with the Flayed Ones, though, is that they are cheap, and actually good at melee, unlike the Warriors. Taking the 260 points from the Flayed Ones and building my army in the way you've suggested (adding 2 more Crypteks, swapping Phylacteries for MSS's, and breaking up Wraith wargear) leaves me with 175 points. Doesn't leave me a whole lot of options for a melee list - both of my HQ choices are occupied, as well as my Fast Attack and two each of Troop and Heavy Support slots. Lychguards, Praetorians, and C'Tan are all too expensive. The only two options I can see at that point (disregarding Flayed Ones for a moment) are to either beef up the size of my Warrior squads (who are bad at melee), or bring in more Spyders (who are slow).

Even if I made points for one of the other Elite choices, I'm not certain they're worth it. Below is my breakdown of the Necron melee Elite choices, as I see it.

Flayed Ones:
Pros: 3/4 attacks, 4+ armor, 5+ RP, Deep Strike/Infiltrate, 13 points so lots of units
Cons: Low initiative, no invulnerable save

Lychguard:
Pros: Can take Warscythes for anti-armor or Dispersion shields for a 3+/4++, 5+ RP
Cons: Low initiative, expensive at 40 points a model, slow and don't have special rules to get them across the battlefield (like flayed ones)

Praetorians:
Pros: Power weapons for anti-infantry or Voidblades for anti-armour, jump infantry, 3+ armor, 5+ RP
Cons: Low initiative, no invulnerable save, expensive at 40 points a model, 1/2 attacks on a charge

C'Tan Shard:
Pros: Monstrous Creature, Toughness 7 and 4+/4++, Immune to Natural Law, upgradeable, multiple Wounds, 4/5 attacks
Cons: 1 model, minimum 205 pts (max 280), slow, draws a LOT of fire

....Okay, so after typing this all out and browsing through my Codex, it seems that C'Tan are a lot nicer than I originally though - I'm just not certain they fit in with this list.

With all that being said, I DID make some changes to the list, taking your advice into consideration:

2 Necron Overlords (540 pts) each with
- Catacomb Command Barge (Gauss Cannon)
- Warscythe
- Cryptec (Destruction)
- - Eldritch Lance
- - Solar Pulse
- Cryptec (Destruction)
- - Eldritch Lance

30 Flayed Ones [3 squads of 10] (390 pts)

16 Warriors [2 squads of 8] (219 pts)
- 2 Ghost Arks

10 Canoptek Scarabs

12 Canoptek Wraiths [2 squads of 6] (480 pts) each with
- 3 Whip Coils

The problem I noticed with the old list is that I had a lot of slow units (Warriors, Spyders) mixed with a bunch of fast ones (Overlords, Wraiths, Scarabs). It seems to me that a melee army needs to stay fast and mobile to succeed, particularly since I've only got two turns of Night Fighting to benefit from. So I dropped the RezLords and put the Warriors in Ghost Arks (which the Harbingers of Destruction can squeeze into) so the Warriors can move about the board freely. Ghost Arks will repair Warriors that get dropped off better than a RezLord anyway. Primary anti-tank now gets allocated to Scarabs, Harbingers, and Overlords. Flayed Ones will (probably) Deep Strike into the middle of the enemy (should help to draw fire away from my Wraiths and Arks).

My mistake about the wargear for the Wraiths. I personally do not run them, as I use extremely shooty Necrons with Destroyer wings.

But I would still kit out the other three non-coil wraiths as follows: 1 Caster, 1 Beamer, 1 vanilla. The wound allocation shenanigans will add a lot of survivability to the group.

If you're looking for something to use those extra points for, I would suggest adding a Harbinger of Despair Cryptek w/ VoD & Abyssal Staff to a squad of Deathmarks. I run two squads of these guys, and they are lethal. A perfect anti-deathstar, great for wiping out Long Fangs immediately; even Termies will fall to them pretty quickly.