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So the Ctan shard has the immune to natural law special rule that lets it ignore the effects of difficult and dangerous terrain right? And its also a monsterous creature, a very tall one at that...so swarm of spirit dust gives it assault grenades which it literally has no use for and stealth which is redundant as hell on an MC.

Right...except here's a thing-it also gives him defensive grenades-so units assaulting him don't get bonus attacks. Fairly useful, right? And lets not forget he can get cover from vehicles and such in the way-stealth brings his cover save to a 3+. It looks odd at first glance, but it does work. Does it help to point out that Nurgle and Slaanesh DPs and GDs in the Daemon codex can also get assault/defense grenades?

I knew that nurgle and slaanesh princes had grenades. but they need them so they can assault in to terrain and keep there high initiative.

remember that 6th edition is right around the corner. There have been several things in recent codices that seem stupidly odd.

its possable that Assault Grenades will have an additional effect in 6th that we arn't aware of. And the Digital Weapons the Brotherhood champion can take might actually be usable(rerolling a reroll)


In 5th, the assault grenades are redundant. In 6th they might give you something interesting.

shadeyaces wrote:I knew that nurgle and slaanesh princes had grenades. but they need them so they can assault in to terrain and keep there high initiative.

But...so can the C'tan. Even if it's only I4, it's still attacking at its initiative. I'm not quite sure I follow why it's less useful on him than it is on the princes...can you explain how it's different to you?

timetowaste85 wrote:

shadeyaces wrote:I knew that nurgle and slaanesh princes had grenades. but they need them so they can assault in to terrain and keep there high initiative.

But...so can the C'tan. Even if it's only I4, it's still attacking at its initiative. I'm not quite sure I follow why it's less useful on him than it is on the princes...can you explain how it's different to you?

C'tan ignore terrain due to Immune to Natural Law, thus they ALWAYS strike at their inititive. The Assault Grenades do nothing for them, at least for now.

It doesn't suffer the effects of terrain, therefor Assault Grenades (as they are now) are useless.

Arrrrrgh! A Grey Ninja Templar beat me to it!

hmmm, ninja templars....

I like

Grey Templar wrote:

timetowaste85 wrote:

shadeyaces wrote:I knew that nurgle and slaanesh princes had grenades. but they need them so they can assault in to terrain and keep there high initiative.

But...so can the C'tan. Even if it's only I4, it's still attacking at its initiative. I'm not quite sure I follow why it's less useful on him than it is on the princes...can you explain how it's different to you?

C'tan ignore terrain due to Immune to Natural Law, thus they ALWAYS strike at their inititive. The Assault Grenades do nothing for them, at least for now.

Ah, I thought it was only for regular moving, didn't realize it was for assault too-I only read that part once before giving the book as a birthday present. Yeah...I read the book and gave it away. Lol. Saved my buddy from having to buy a $35 (after tax) book so he could spend his money on models instead-it just came pre-read, albeit briefly. Oh well, my point of defensive grenades still stands as useful, even if the other parts don't for now. But, as we've all been warned, the book encompasses rules that make NO sense in 5th, but will work well in 6th: deathmarks DSing during opponent's turn, Destroyers with preferred enemy, etc, etc. The stealth part is still useful too though-only the assault grenades part is a bit wonky.

timetowaste85 wrote:Ah, I thought it was only for regular moving, didn't realize it was for assault too

Just to clarify - you suffer the initiative penalty when you have roll a DT test. Since the C'Tan never does, he never suffers. The rule doesn't need to spell out assault.

+1 to cover saves can certainly be useful.

Deathmarks DSing in the enemy turn means they can fire while stationary on your turn. Them arriving automatically when an enemy unit arrives from Reserve means that they get more turns of shooting at full range in than they would walking on from the edge or DSing in your own turn.

I like nurgle prince with gernades. The defen gernades make that prince a lot more surivable. I really want to know y it has stealth to.

shadeyaces wrote:I like nurgle prince with gernades. The defen gernades make that prince a lot more surivable. I really want to know y it has stealth to.

I listed above why he has stealth-if he's partially blocked by a vehicle and his save goes to a 3+ instead of a 4+. I'd rather use a 3+ cover than a 4++, wouldn't you?

I would like to 3+ cover save but your hiding this close combat monster behind a monolith or a ghost ark. I feel like it seems like a waste of pts at this point.

Dang people, does no one play with terrain that can hide 1/2 a C'tan?

Thats all he needs, 1/2 his body covered.

He ignores the effecy of dificult and dangerush terain while moving. But he does not count as moving through terain for the purpose of assaulting?

While he ignores it in the moving part, by the time the game locks into initiative 1 of the combat does it not look back and see him having moved through terain?

Niiai wrote:He ignores the effecy of dificult and dangerush terain while moving. But he does not count as moving through terain for the purpose of assaulting?

While he ignores it in the moving part, by the time the game locks into initiative 1 of the combat does it not look back and see him having moved through terain?

No - you only get set to initiative 1 if you roll the dice for a difficult terrain test. Since he never rolls the dice, he never gets reduced.

Remember when Assault/Defensive Grenades began popping up in Codexes and everyone was wondering what that was all about? Remember when the new rules came around and Assault/Defensive grenades not only made sense but rocked?


This is the same thing.

Iur_tae_mont wrote:Remember when Assault/Defensive Grenades began popping up in Codexes and everyone was wondering what that was all about? Remember when the new rules came around and Assault/Defensive grenades not only made sense but rocked?


This is the same thing.

They rocked for everybody else then tyranids.

Niiai wrote:

Iur_tae_mont wrote:Remember when Assault/Defensive Grenades began popping up in Codexes and everyone was wondering what that was all about? Remember when the new rules came around and Assault/Defensive grenades not only made sense but rocked?


This is the same thing.

They rocked for everybody else then tyranids.

Hey now - Carnifexes can have them!

... If they pay even more points than they already do for mediocrity...
And everyone (within 6" of a Venomthrope) can have defensive grenades.

rigeld, stop trolling.

Niiai wrote:rigeld, stop trolling.

I wasn't trying to troll. I apologize if it seems like I was.

Iur_tae_mont wrote:Remember when Assault/Defensive Grenades began popping up in Codexes and everyone was wondering what that was all about? Remember when the new rules came around and Assault/Defensive grenades not only made sense but rocked?


This is the same thing.

You mean Codexaemons...yes.

I thought it was Daemons, but didn't want to get it wrong and have everyone focus on the wrong part of the post.

I lol when I beat gk with my daemons.. sorry that was off topic. Whenever a mechanic gets added it cause some raised eyebrows but as previously stated the grenades etc may change in 6th so they did it in the cron book as a premptive.

C'tan can move partially into large terrain features, easy cover save, eassy stealth.

Not sure if grenades are cheap or not, no book onn me.

Defensive genades mean a lot to a t7 model

schadenfreude wrote:C'tan can move partially into large terrain features, easy cover save, eassy stealth.

If the terrain feature blocks more than 50% of the model, yes. Because he's a MC and as such doesn't benefit from area terrain.

right, dumbass question time - so you guys are saying that you only take a penalty to your initiative when assaulting if you take a difficult terrain test? And since the C'tan doesn't need to, it always goes at I4 (unless against nids with whips etc)?

Because I was on the verge of giving mine the Swarm thing purely as I thought that he would be going I4 when assaulting bunkered-down units. Obviously a 3+ cover save is nice though

So if the above is true for the C'tan then surely the same applies to wraiths?

Yes.

Caranthir987 wrote:right, dumbass question time - so you guys are saying that you only take a penalty to your initiative when assaulting if you take a difficult terrain test? And since the C'tan doesn't need to, it always goes at I4 (unless against nids with whips etc)?

Yes.

So if the above is true for the C'tan then surely the same applies to wraiths?

Yes.

2nd paragraph, right column, page 36.
" ..., if an assaulting unit had to take a difficult or dangerous terrain test during their assault move, all of its models have their Initiative value lowered to 1 when attacking..."
Emphasis added.

If you don't need to roll, you don't suffer.