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Sorry for making a whole new thread but when I went to post on the latest Painboy thread it said it was old and I might irritate people.

Old thread here (last page): http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/60/404067.page#3468420

The thread by MrMerlin at the top of that page seemed to end the argument but theres a problem with this.

In the example MrMerlin used (Ork Infantry Horde, pg 82-83 Ork Codex) it states the unit "5 Nobz........" then the equipment "With two twin-linked shootas, one power klaw, a Waaargh! banner, and a boss pole including a Painboy with a Grot orderly". All good so far...........

BUT

In the picture there are 6 models in that unit, 5 Nobz AND 1 Painboy (yes I made sure that one of the Boyz from the unit behind did not wander into this unit).

And with the math MrMerlin used in previous post (he got told off for breaking it down so I won't do that here, I can if requested):

Painboy costs 30

And on a side note it isn't included in the max unit size so it is legal to have a unit consisting of 10 Nobz and 1 Painboy (11 models).

As MrMerlin said in previous post, one has to assume the guy that wrote the codex and made the rules knows his own rules

End of?

Yes you can. A painboy is an upgrade, like a sergeant, and can be substituted for a normal nob. Nob squads max out at 15 boys, so the biggest squad including a painboy is 14 nobs and 1 painboy.

A nobz mob costs 20 points per model; the painboy costs an additional 30 points to turn the nob model you already purchased into a Pain boy(it says 1 nob may be a painboy, not You may add 1 pain boy).

Also Birdman; Nobz mobz are capped at 10 mdels; so you can have at most 9 nobz and a Pain boy, and a minimum of 4 Nobz and a painboy.

Painboyz cost 50 Points: 20 for the nob model, +30 to make tht Nob a Painboy.

I'll conceed that the unit composition can only be 10, "One nob may be a painboy" so 10 Nobz & One may be a painboy = 9 Nobz 1 Painboy.

My main point was the points it costs, which is also the contentious part.

The last post in the last thread made it clear that the painboy costs 50 (20 + 30) BUT he did not count the number of models in the picture (pg 82-83 Ork Codex, sample army Green Horde).

It goes like this.... 5 nobz = 20*5 = 100
2 twin-Shootas + Waaargh! banner + boss pole + power klaw = (2*5) + 15 + 5 + 25 = 55

100 + 55 = 155, for 5 Nobz in picture.

Theres a sixth & seventh model in that unit which are the painboy & grot orderly. The total points are 190, grot orderly is 5 points so:
190 (Total for unit)
- 5 (Grot Orderly)
- 155 (Total for 5 Nobz)
30 (Whats left for painboy)

So Painboy costs 30.

I implore people to look at picture, look at unit description, do the maths.... As there are 6 models (7 including grot orderly) you are only left with 30 points for the pain boy.

That picture is not rules

Painboyz cost 50, not 30, because you must buy a nob first. Oddly enough this was spotted when the dex was released, and dismissed for what it is - a mistake in the nonrules section of the book

Ok, fair does, it's definatley worth the points. As a new player though you only have the codex and rule book.

I understand that it's not "the rules section" but it's an example army made by the composer of "the rules section". If it's a mistake in the codex then why when I bought mine 6 months ago (3 to 3.5 yrs after printing) is it still in there. Are codexs not released in editions? Even a spelling mistake in a novel, if noticed, is corrected in later editions, and a spelling mistake in a novel has little to no effect on the story but a rules mistake in a 40k codex could have quite a large effect to the game.

Also the fact that the FAQ has gone from "painboyz can't wear 'eavy armour etc" to "painboyz can wear 'eavy armour etc" in the last few months shows "rules" can change.

The only last word is whether it's been FAQ'ed, which it hasn't.

I know it makes sense if it's 50, and I play as if it's 50 (as 20 points in even a 1k battle doesn't make that much difference), it just seems odd that it's not FAQ'ed, seeing as it's a frequently asked question and all they need to do is "Q. Is painboy 50 points... A. Yes"

Yes, they do reprint, but only when needed - so you are likely to have the erroneous idea that warbike Boyz have 2 wounds each, which is a mistake from the first book where all of them only had one wound, including the nob.

Does it say that! I must have just assumed that warbikers were just boyz on bikes and likewise for nobs so just used their statlines but with the 4+ a/s and 4(5) toughness. (It has no mention of this in the FAQ either way that I can find)

Seems a bit mean that an experienced player can say "actually warbikers have 1 wound each" (which is perfectly true) and then go on to spout any old rule is also different so that he could get an advantage, saying that codex got that wrong as well. Of course that experienced player would have to have no morale fibre in order to do this.

With no codex, rule book or FAQ to fall back on you get to the forum stage, which really just looks for the largest held belief at the time.

Anyway, i'm breaking into philosophy here so I'll just leave it, Painboy is 50 points

Page 101 – Warbikers.
The Warbiker Nob’s profile should be changed as
follows:
WS BS S T W I A Ld Sv
4 2 4 4(5) 2 3 3 7 4+

The initial printing had Nobs as 1 wound, the errata fixed that mistake, unfortunately the second printing of the codex then managed to give normal Warbiker boyz 2 wounds...sigh, GW are wonderful at times!

Sound man, thanks for the clarrification