IG 2500 [no mech]

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**QuietOrkmi**

Hello Dakka! Long time no post, this is my 1,000 post so I decided to try out a new army that was tactical and recent. I am not through with Orks, I am just a little tired of playing them at the moment. So a tactical shooting army would have brought me to Tau, but I have to play for blood when I break out the no-noses... So I went with IG and as a metagame decision, went with a complete foot list. I have always been surprised how quick the men in Flak can be when issued Run! Run! Run!. I chose CREED!, so I can do interesting things, and be my own "Tactical Genius".

What started as a 1,000 point list turned into the following as I added units, and Special characters...

[Editied as of 12/18]

HQ:
• Company command squad: CREED!, Sargent Kell, 3 Veteransw/ grenades, 1 Astropath, 1 Officer of the fleet, 1 bodyguard

• Lord Commisar: Bolt pistol, Power Sword, Melta-bomb, Camo Cloak
Elite:
• Ogryn: 2 Ogryn, 1 Bone ‘Ead

• Storm Trooper: 3 Hotshot Lasgun, 2 Melta Guns

• Guardsman Marbo: Himself

Troop:
• Veterans: 6 Lasguns, 3 Plasmaguns, 1 Sergeant Bastonne

• Veterans: 4 Lasguns, 3 Plasmaguns, 1 Lascacannon, 1 Sergeant Harker

• Infantry Platoon: Anti-Tank
o Platoon Command Squad: 4 Guardsman w/Meltaguns, Platoon Commander
5 Heavy Weapon Teams:
Lascannon Teams: 3 Lascannons
Lascannon Teams: 3 Lascannons
Missile Launcher Team: 3 Missile Launchers
Missile Launcher Team: 3 Missile Launchers
Auto Cannon Team: 3 Auto Cannons
2 Infantry Squads:
Guardsman: 9 Lasguns, 1 Sergeant with CCW & Pistol
Guardsman: 9 Lasguns, 1 Sergeant with CCW & Pistol
1 Conscripts Squad:
Conscripts: 20 lasguns

• Infantry Platoon: Counter Punch & Screening
o Platoon Command Squad: 2 Guardsman w/flamers, 2 Guardsman w/grenade launcher, Platoon Commander
4 Infantry Squads:
Guardsman: 9 Lasguns, 1 Sergeant with Power weapon & Pistol
Guardsman: 9 Lasguns, 1 Sergeant with Power weapon & Pistol
Guardsman: 9 Lasguns, 1 Sergeant with Power weapon & Pistol
Guardsman: 9 Lasguns, 1 Sergeant with Power weapon & Pistol

• Infantry Platoon: Al’Rahem
o Platoon Command Squad: 4 Guardsman w/meltaguns, Al’Rahem
2 Infantry Squads:
Guardsman: 9 Lasguns, 1 Sergeant with Power Weapon& Pistol
Guardsman: 9 Lasguns, 1 Sergeant with Power Weapon& Pistol
2 Special Weapon Squad:
Plasma Squad: 3 Plasma Guns, 3 Las Guns
Plasma Squad: 3 Plasma Guns, 3 Las Guns

Explanation:

The Ogryns are attached to the Lord Commisar to soak incoming shooting wounds, and "give" him T5 in the shooting phase. Also another Scout/Outflanking Target.

Storm Trooper and Marbo are surgical Deepstrikers for Melta/Demoing something.

The Metagame is mainly MEQs: Space Wolves and Greyknights being the majority of those MEQS.

Thoughts:

**Talore**

You do realize Seargant Harker gives his whole veteran squad Stealth, yes? It seems like a waste to spend the points on Forward Sentries when all you're getting out of it is defensive grenades.

EDIT: Disregard that, I see you've already figured that out

As far as I remember, the Lord Commissar can indeed take a camo cloak. Ogryns with good cover saves sound scary!

I'd love to see what this army looks like in the flesh, it sure sounds cool!

**QuietOrkmi**

Lately I have been practicing deploying the darn thing... boy is it tough as you nearly fill up the board... provided you only deploy the Company CREED! Squad, The Commissar & Friends, Anti-Tank Platoon, and The Counter Punch Platoon...

**fotta**

I'm curious why you don't take advantage of all the special weapon slots you have available. Melta/plasma in all the squads and the PCS. Same with heavy weapons. You have several units of HW teams, but none in your stationary gunline where they are toughest because of all the ablative wounds.

**QuietOrkmi**

I was building with the intentions that nothing is stationary, with the exception of HW teams...

Also it mixes the priorities of the unit... Fire at infantry, FRF! SRF! is great, but the lascannon or missile launcher is wasted...

As for the PCS, see Thoughts:

Automatically Appended Next Post:
I was building with the intentions that nothing is stationary, with the exception of HW teams...

Also it mixes the priorities of the unit... Fire at infantry, FRF! SRF! is great, but the lascannon or missile launcher is wasted...

As for the PCS, see Thoughts:

**QuietOrkmi**

So played a few games, and here is what I found:
Dropping things:

I do not need to have 2 bodyguards and Kell... So dropping the two bodyguards will free up about 2 plasmaguns or 3 meltaguns for CREEED! unit...

Dropping the master of ordinance and the Camo-cloaks freed up enough points to give Al'Raheem's squad melta guns and a PCS 4 grenade launchers.

Observation:

3 Ogryns are surprisingly durable and can hold up against 5 thunder-hammer storm shield terminators for 2 assault phases when a Lord Commissar are making them LD10...

The 20 conscripts from the "Counter Punch" platoon should be in the Anti-Tank Platoon so the "Counter Punch" Platoon can be put in reserve against aggressive armies like Orks

For the Honor of Cadia is a powerful Order and turns guardsman into a threat to boyz and Space marines

Towards the end of the game, I run out of targets for Orders

I have a lot of Kill points up for grabs

People in my area are ignoring the commisar in close combat, maybe a power weapon (4 attacks or 5 on the charge) will change that...

Al'raheem's Platoon is just amazing, as having 50 guys show up from a table edge... Lone wolves, lootas, and tactical squads are not safe

The Storm Troopers and Guardsman Marbo have both been incredibly powerful as they make opponents think about possible places that they can Deep Strike or show up. The small footprint, combined with the re-roll has been invaluable for landing near a LR or Battlewagon.

**bigbaboonass**

Sounds awesome. I love seeing foot guard win. Keep up the great work.

**Battle Brother Ambrosius**

QuietOrkmi wrote:Hello Dakka! Long time no post, this is my 1,000 post so I decided to try out a new army that was tactical and recent. I am not through with Orks, I am just a little tired of playing them at the moment. So a tactical shooting army would have brought me to Tau, but I have to play for blood when I break out the no-noses... So I went with IG and as a metagame decision, went with a complete foot list. I have always been surprised how quick the men in Flak can be when issued Run! Run! Run!. I chose CREED!, so I can do interesting things, and be my own "Tactical Genius".

What started as a 1,000 point list turned into the following as I added units, and Special characters...

HQ:
• Company command squad: CREED!, Sargent Kell, 3 Veterans, 1 Medic, 2 Bodyguards, 1 Astropath, 1 Officer of the fleet, 1 Master of Ordinance Drop the bodyguards, you have Kell who can protect Creed pretty nicely. Drop the medic also, I for one have never found him worth his points.
• Lord Commisar: Bolt pistol, Chain Sword Can be good, depending on the army you are facing and the units you have.

Elite:
• Ogryn: 2 Ogryn, 1 Bone ‘Ead If I were you, I would add a couple more Ogryns. Otherwise drop. The Commissar Lord/Ogryn combination will be deadly with 5+ ogryns.
• Storm Trooper: 2 Hotshot Lasgun, 2 Melta Guns, 1 Sargent with a plasma pistol This kinda depends. Usually meltavets can do anything they can and more, but if your plan is to make a suicide strike which will die for sure and (possibly) make some damage before that, keep them. Otherwise spend the points on meltavets.
• Guardsman Marbo: Himself Well, he can be good, but he is likely going to turn up to be just kill points carrying a demo charge.
Troop:
• Veterans: 6 Lasguns, 3 Plasmaguns, 1 Sergeant Bastonne Drop Bastonne, he is just a waste of points for a 4+ save and a special order which is not that good. Give Meltas.
• Veterans: 4 Lasguns, 3 Plasmaguns, 1 Lascacannon, 1 Sergeant Harker, Camo Cloaks and Defensive Grenades At least Harker is better than Bastonne. Drop camo cloaks, Harker already has stealth. Give Meltas
• Infantry Platoon: Anti-Tank 5 Heavy Weapon Teams: Good.
Lascannon Teams: 3 Lascannons
Lascannon Teams: 3 Lascannons
Missile Launcher Team: 3 Missile Launchers
Missile Launcher Team: 3 Missile Launchers
Auto Cannon Team: 3 Auto Cannons
2 Infantry Squads:
Guardsman: 9 Lasguns, 1 Sergeant with CCW & Pistol Give a Meltagun to them
Guardsman: 9 Lasguns, 1 Sergeant with CCW & Pistol Same
• Infantry Platoon: Counter Punch & Screening
o Platoon Command Squad: 4 Guardsman w/flamers, Platoon Commander w/powerfist, Commisar w/powerfist Flamers are only good against hordes. Drop them, and give plasmas. Commissar is bad with PCS, since he will kill your commander if an order fails. Orders are best given to Heavy wep. squads.
1 Conscripts Squad:
Conscripts: 20 lasguns Drop them or add Chenkov and give them SITNW.
2 Infantry Squads:
Guardsman: 9 Lasguns, 1 Sergeant with Power weapon & Pistol No special weaponsother than PF?
Guardsman: 9 Lasguns, 1 Sergeant with Power weapon & Pistol--II--
• Infantry Platoon: Al’Rahem Drop Al'Rahem. I have never found much use for him.
o Platoon Command Squad: 4 Guardsman w/lasguns, Al’Rahem Give special weapons
1 Conscripts Squad:
Conscripts: 20 lasguns You don't really need two separate conscript squads. Just make one large one and add Chenkov.
2 Infantry Squads:
Guardsman: 9 Lasguns, 1 Sergeant with CCW & Pistol More special weapons
Guardsman: 9 Lasguns, 1 Sergeant with CCW & Pistol Same
2 Special Weapon Squad:
Plasma Squad: 3 Plasma Guns, 3 Las Guns Buy more veterans with their points, you get the same things and a lot more from them.
Plasma Squad: 3 Plasma Guns, 3 Las Guns Same
Explanation:

The Ogryns are attached to the Lord Commisar to soak incoming shooting wounds, and "give" him T5 in the shooting phase. Also another Scout/Outflanking Target.

Storm Trooper and Marbo are surgical Deepstrikers for Melta/Demoing something.

The Metagame is mainly MEQs: Space Wolves and Greyknights being the majority of those MEQS.

Thoughts

I am not sure about the Master of Ordinance, I may drop him for more points

Just realized that Harker has Stealth, so I need to take off those Camo Cloaks for more points

I am thinking about spending those points on more special weapons for the guardsman/veterans attached to the various commanders

Not sure if a Lord Comissar can take a camo cloak but if he can, is it worth it to give a squad stealth with him attached. (I am thinking later game, attach the Commisar to Conscripts and then go to ground for a 2+ cover save, or Incoming! for a 4+ cover save in the open.

First of all, you have many special characters on your list. Usually just one or two is enough, which would be Creed and Chenkov, maybe Kell in this case. They cost a ton, and usually are not worth their points. Use those points for better things, like special weapons or more squads.

Furthermore, you mentioned giving Creed's unit meltas or plasmas. You don't want to get him too close of the enemy. Give him a heavy weapon instead, like AC or LC.

**ph34r**

Serious question: have you ever tried playing a list with this many bodies in a game? In a tournament?

**QuietOrkmi**

So, I noticed many gloss over the further thoughts portion so I will start updating the list as it changes....

@ph34r:

The answer is yes, I have done lots of practicing with this list with just deploying them on various boards and different sides of the boards. I also have played several games with them.

@Battle Brother Ambrosius:

I have found through extensive testing that I do not want guardsman to have stubborn on my enemies turn, it can lead to units holding instead of breaking and prevents me from shooting at them.

I have also found that in every game, Al’Rahem never fails to blind side my opponent. Having about 50 guys show up in near you is always unsettling. The updated version (12/10) has meltaguns in his squad.

Probably a typo, but you mention ordering a heavy team with a PCS... unless I am missing something, they can only order M!M!M!, FRF!SRF! and Incoming correct?

Before Dropping Sgt. Bastonne, I want to try a few more games, He is usually the target of Creeds's Tactical Genius and always regroups with LD 10. Being a troop choice, this usually enough. I will look into the whole Plasma vs Melta, but what I fear is that he will be unable to support my other units with a 12-18" firing range with meltas.

While being a KP with a Demo Charge, I feel Marbo is something my opponent has to shift his attention to, and deal with immediately as he posses meltabombs.

Further thoughts:

I might change the whole Counter punch platoon into just an infantry platoon squad. Dropping the Commissar w/powerfist, the Powerfist on the platoon commander would free up points to change the flamers into plasma guns. I will double check the points but I will also see about dropping the plasma pistol on the Storm Troopers, and both power weapons from the infantry squad, so I could purchase another infantry Squad in that platoon. 30 Guardsman with Furious Charge and Fearless on my turn is something powerful indeed.

**kaiservonhugal**

Doesnt Creed allow one unit to outflank? Im wondering if Al'rahim is redundant in this list since Creed already provides the ability to outflank.

**QuietOrkmi**

Usually that would be Sergeant Bastonne's unit that gains Scouts.

**QuietOrkmi**

Played another game, Found out the following:
Turns out Al'raheem can order Bring it down...
Turns out Officers can order themselves...

So... made some changes to the list and now I have 30 points floating... I will post update in a bit.

**Talore**

It wouldn't hurt to throw a few Grenade Launchers or Flamers into those infantry blobs with leftover points. A few extra attacks before a charge could make the difference!

How does this list end up playing? I'd love to see some insights into mass shooting, as the only footguard lists I see at large point values use powerblobs for melee. Do you have any batreps?

**QuietOrkmi**

I am going on vacation soon so I wont be able to write one up... but Next game I play I will write up a report.

So far my game vs the MEQ players has gone like this:
I set up 1 platoon, and creed then harker . They Set up

I neutralize their LR . they fire shots back and they bounce off thanks to Cover saves, or they fire at the infantry squads to get rid of my cover.

Marbo/Stormtroopers come in and get rid of another LR . They kill Marbo/Stormtroopers, and go back to shooting at infantry or heavy weapons teams

Al'Rahem's/Counter Charge/Bastonne's unit comes in to lay the hurt on what has hit my lines or what was sitting on theirs...

This is turn 2 or 3 that the 2 paragraphs above happen. it really does not matter the order as that is what happens when they show up 99% of the time.

Because everything is in reserves and DS, or Outflanks pretty reliably, I feel like a Tactical Genius running things... The various officers all act as power multipliers and Marbo/StormTroopers are great for taking out big dumb vehicles... Harker never fails to draw fire as their is a LasCannon shooting at your side arc, but the 3+ cover saves is tough for people to crack without ignoring the Heavy Weapons teams... The plasma guns also turn Terminators into Space marines/guardsman and Space Marines into Grots in terms of durability, something they are not used to...

The whole Gets hot is not a big deal as the list runs over 12 plasma guns...

**BlkTom**

Some points, since I run foot guard myself...

Having Kell in your CCS takes up a special weapon slot, so your CCS should only have 3 Special weapons. Techincally you have been running an illegal list.

You have figured out that Vets given a heavy weapon should be a LC, but the problem with Harker being given a LC is your now wasting Harker's heavy bolter. Just suck it up and give Harker's unit a second heavy bolter and infiltrate them to 18" away from a devistator type squad and rape them with 2 heavy bolters and 3 plasma guns (thus keep them strictly anti-infantry). I would keep Lasguns with the rest of the Vets to work the rapid fire with the plasma guns. Remember that you can use Cover saves for 'Gets Hot!'. To give Harker AT capability, I give him Demolitions. Suddenily even a hoard unit is leary if they can't close that 18" to charge... all that rapid firing, 6 HB shots, and a Demo charge can take care of a unit quickly.

I like Bastonne, as he can also issue 'Bring it Down!'. His unit should have Sentries, a LC and 3x Plasma guns and is a great unit for 'Tactical Genius' since he can give himself Orders and thus be out of Creed's range. You can even splurge and give him Demolitions on top of it for some AT capability.

Drop the conscripts unless your running Chenkov and 'Send in the next wave!'. Why are you not running power blobs? Proper kit out should be one Commissar, melta gun or flamer, and a power sword and melta bomb for every who can use them. 'For Cadia!' makes them a beast!

Drop the ML HWSs. For 15pts, your getting 1 Str 8 shot (so your shooting at AV 12 or less) or a Str 4 Frag (where your hitting 2.5 guys if they have a 2" spread). Your AC for 10pts gets two shots, is str 7 (so AV 12 or less), and against infantry will probably kill the same number of guys the frag does. For 5pts less, your BS 3 guys now have a 75% chance to hit with one shot (effectivily) and is shooting at the same units with really the same results as the ML.

It is simple, LCs for AV 12+ and ACs for AV 12 or less. MLs are to expensive and not as effective as ACs and Mortars and HBs are strictly anti-infantry units.

I really like my Ogryns, and run a 10 man squad of them in large games (I also run 30 Rough Riders with Creed... try yelling 'Move!x3' to units on horses!) and they totally need that PW that a Commissar can give them. BUT, when your running 2500pts, I have to ask why Yarrick is not the guy leading them? He will not execute your Bone 'Ead on a bad Leadership roll (and Orders /are/ leadership rolls). At 2500pts, I would not run less than 5 Ogryns, and would consider 10.

To also give you a second use for a Lord Commissar... give them a camo cloak and place the Lord in Cover. Then place your one HWT of a couple of HWSs within 6" of him (in cover). Those units are now Ld 10 for Orders, Morale, and pinning tests! Attach him to a unit and give them 3+ cover saves and make them Stubborn! Just be wary of him executing someone. But his 'Aura of Discipline' is huge to keep your HWSs around in a battle and makes them much harder to get off the field. I feel this works great in combo with Kell or a regimental banner, as Kell/banner gives them a re-roll on those tests to boot, even if giving them Orders is now a wash.

Now you have a choice where to put your Lord Commissar (or Yarrick).

Your SWSs... Plasmas are a waste on BS 3 units with Ld 7. Give them 2x flamers and a demo charge.

Drop the plasma pistol on the ST sergeant, unless this is to give them some versitility of target selection (infantry/power armor). But against a AV 12+, the plasma pistol is wasted.

I learned a valuable lession with FRF,SRF! against Blood Angles that had FNP. Fifty-two shots, 1 kill on a 10 man squad. PIS /need/ special weapons to give them a punch, and melta guns are my fav choice as it punched through power armor, is assault so you can charge, is str 8 for MCs and is AP 1.

**JonnyB**

I would love to see the fluff on this. They could be a PDF. I would like to play against this list. You don't happen to be around NC are you? I have never played against guard....

**QuietOrkmi**

Updating the list.... 12/17

**pzbw7z**

Your blob should have a Commissar. If you don't want them to hold, remove him as a casualty. Three squads is a better size for blobs, it's more durable and an extra power weapon is always handy.

I love Al'Raheem, but two squads is a bit thin. Three is a good size. Why doesn't this unit have power weapons and a Commissar? I give the platoon command a Chimera which makes them much more effective but I guess you're opposed to mech.

**QuietOrkmi**

Sorry about that Pzbw7z, I forgot to update... Updated the list...
I thought about having all the Commissars running around but I just could not stomach the points it would cost... I would much rather have another 10 bodies so I could be within range of the Lord Commisar's LD bubble and Kell's Banner...

My only problem with putting special weapons in infantry squads is that it leads to the following problem... 8 lasguns firing at light infantry and the plasmagun is overkill, or the plasa gun fires on a rhino while the lasguns do nothin... also it causes me to wince more if I lose an infantry squad without them firin...

I have yet to play against the FNP marines but I think if I castle into the corner, the plasma fire will whittle them down when Al'rehem, Bastonnes show up...

The sole bodyguard is to absorb the S6+ hit against the squad because Kell does not have EW.