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So a friend of mine may be restarting her Necrons soon. I`ve decided to give her a hand with building her army list (plus I`ve wanted to tinker around with the new Necron book). Please tell me what you think of the following list:


Overlord- Resurrection Orb, Phaeron- 140
A fairly cheap Overlord who provides staying power and better shooting potential to the big squad of Warriors. If I had the points, I would have given him a warscythe as well, but hopefully other elements of the army will be able to draw enemies away from the big Warrior squad.

Royal Court: Harbinger of Despair- Veil of Darkness - 60
This guy is there to boost the Immortals by teleporting them into rapid fire range. Hopefully, he`ll also allow them to contest or grab objectives on the last turn as well.

Destroyer Lord- warscythe, sempiternal weave, Mindshackle Scarabs- 180
He was added....really, just because. He'll be running with the Wraiths to give them more punch in CC, though if necessary he can split off to attack other things.

20 Warriors - 260
The main core of the army, theyll be sitting on objectives and providing lots of fire support thanks to Relentless from the Phaeron.

10 Immortals- gauss blasters-170
The obligatory 2nd troops choice, also there for fire support & objective grabbing thanks to the Cryptek.

8 Scarabs - 120
The tank hunters/distraction. Theyll either munch some tanks, and then die, or die anyway but draw the opponent's attention away from other things. They'll be boosted by the Spyders all the while.

5 Canoptek Wraiths- 2 particle casters, 1 transdimensional beamer, 2 whip coils- 215
The main hammer of the army, there to zoom up hugging cover and then run forward to kill things. Hopefully, the enemy will be so scared of them and the Destroyer Lord that they'll ignore the Warriors/Immortals.

3 Heavy Destroyers- 180
Anti-tank support, there to hopefully sit in cover and be annoying all game.

3 Canoptek Spyders- Fabricator Claw, Gloom Prism- 175
There to pop out more Scarabs, and to counter-charge anything that tries to threaten the Warriors.

Total: 1500 pts on the dot


Note that I probably got a lot of points wrong. Either what, what do you think?

Drop a heavy destroyer, and some of each troop choice to get a Stalker. The TL will really help with your list.

The thing I don't like about the list is that it's too easy for the enemy to prioritize targets. You are using units that are good.....but a lot of them are unsupported or there is just a singluar threat. It looks a lot like "I want one of this.....and one of this.....and one of this....." unfortunately this just doesn't work in 40k. You need redundant threats (note this doesn't have to mean redundant units).

Another big thing is you have no protection from ranged-fire what-so-ever. No vehicles to hide in or provide cover saves to/block LOS. No ghost arc to repair warriors. And no Solar Pulse to provide you with Night-Fight benefit.

The entire army is just very naked without that defense. An enemy can easily just kite around you, especially if they are even just half-mechanized.

I look at this list and go:

1)
Okay so S8+ shoot at the wraiths so it doesn't matter that they have diverse equipment. And lots of armies out there will have a ton of these since mech is so big in this game (missiles, lances,dark lances, lascannons, meltaguns,psybolt autocannons, Hive Guard, and even things like battlecannons, demolisher cannons)

If you want that wraith unit to work...you're going to need other threats on the board that will also present targets for S8+ weapons AND be just as threatening. Or you want to make it less easy for the enemy to make that decision....which means not diversifying their equipement. Yes it makes them more susceptable to small-arms fire...but it also now means the opponent has to make a choice of what to shoot at.

And considering that wraiths honestly are a huge thread, they will devote a lot of dice at them...plus the 3++ is decent for keeping them alive. Will they die? Maybe...but you're assaulting on turn two and you have a good chance of taking flak off of the rest of the army (I'll outline this further down)...especially taking some S6/S7 fire off of the scarabs.

That and a single unit of wraiths just doesn't work. Do you see a single unit of Palladins or Nobz/Nob BIkerz (without transports for protection) doing well? Not really as S8+ will just ruin them. They may get lucky or do well in a game here or there but the overall effectiveness is really blunted unless you build a list specifically with them in mind.

2)
Next S6/S7 and templates shoot at the scarabs....S6 templates are even better (hellhounds, redeemers, dreadnights). Even with the Spyders you're going to want to hug cover with them because a lot of armies out there can field a bunch of S6/S7 fire (IG, Marines, Eldar, Necrons,Wolves, Grey Knights) or just tie them up in CC (IG with platoons / sacrificial units, Orks, Dark Eldar, Tyranids, most marines (BA especially).

Scarabs are good....very good. But they have to be able to get to the enemy to do the damage. Solar Pulse will help you out here a lot.

3)
S5 and lower guns for the Immortals / Warriors or shifts to the others if they get too close.

4) You really need better ranged anti-transport fire power so the scarabs and wraiths can mulch their way through CC. Scarabs can hurt vehicles well and all, but are better for hunting high armor vehicles....but you need something to soften up/bust open transports (hell even stun-locking/immobilizing works as then the next turn you just auto-hit in CC).


So honestly what I'm getting at here is the list needs a lot more focus and better threat saturation.

What does your friend really like/want in an army? A more focused list of likes/dislikes would make it much easier for us to help you out.

So in other words, what you're saying the list needs is:

1. Multiple scary threats, not just Wraiths
2. A Solar Pulse
3. Better anti-tank, especially vs. enemy transports.

With that in mind, here's a revision of the list:

Overlord- warscythe, Resurrection Orb, Phaeron- 150
-Cryptek- Herald of Destruction, Eldritch Lance, Solar Pulse- 55
-Cryptek- Herald of Transmogrification, Tremorstave- 30
10 Immortals- Gauss blasters- 170
8 Warriors- 105
7 Warriors- 91
C'tan Shard- Swarm of Spirit Dust, Writhing Worldscape- 240
8 Canoptek Scarabs- 120
8 Canoptek Scarabs- 120
5 Canoptek Wraiths- 2 particle casters, 2 whip coils- 205
2 Canoptek Spyders- 100
2 Canoptek Spyders- 100


1495

(Again, I probably got quite a few points wrong).

Overlord & Harbinger of Despair go with the Immortals, both Transmog Harbinger goes with one of the Warrior squads.
The C'tan is a big scary fire magnet on his own, plus Writhing Worldscape + Tremorstaves can make moving very difficult for the opponent. And the Spyders are now split up to cover more ground/present more targets. Sadly, firepower goes down a bit for this list, as I wind up dropping the Destroyers.

Any thoughts on this list now? I'm thinking that, if worse comes to worse, I may ust drop the C'tan for Ghost Arks or Annihilation Barges instead.

C'tan Shard! Now we're talking threats a little harder to ignore!
Looking better! ... but not quite there yet.
I'd say drop the second unit of Scarabs and boost the remaining one up to 10 bases (bump each of those Spyder units up to three as well, get yourself a mini scarab farm going).
With the freshly opened FA slot, stick in a second Wraith unit.
Drop one Warrior unit down to 5 and leave them in reserves to walk-on-take late game objectives. The other Warrior unit... hell, I don't even know if they'd be necessary anymore, other than something to stick that second Cryptek into.
Oh, and that Tremorstave says he wants a Crucible as well.
Also seems like it's missing a Annihilation Barge, but I doubt there'd be room for it.
(in fact, I have no idea what points would work out like in this ridiculous list of "suggestions" I have just made)

On the new list, I do not see the point in the Warriors. They are not doing anything. What are they meant to be doing?

C'Tan Shard is the biggest monstrous creature in terms of model size, it will attract all the fire power and then die. It's not massively hard to kill with the right army and costs loads of points. I would drop this.

mercer wrote:On the new list, I do not see the point in the Warriors. They are not doing anything. What are they meant to be doing?

C'Tan Shard is the biggest monstrous creature in terms of model size, it will attract all the fire power and then die. It's not massively hard to kill with the right army and costs loads of points. I would drop this.

Trygons are bigger

I think the idea of shard in the case is to saturate the STR 8+ weapon targets, (Wraiths as well). I've had pretty good luck keeping my shards alive but I tend to run some bigger threats that get focused first and a Mono with it's awesome LOS blocking skills.

Overlord- warscythe, Resurrection Orb, Phaeron- 150

Not crazy about the Orb as it seems to be a bit pricey. Why not just add more Immortals? The rest is fine.

-Cryptek- Herald of Destruction, Eldritch Lance, Solar Pulse- 55

Perfect. This guy is an auto include in any Necron list.

-Cryptek- Herald of Transmogrification, Tremorstave- 30

I get the point, but I don't really like it. My friend has been running 4 Tremorstaves in conjunction with a WW C'tan and it seems underwhelming. I think if you go that route you have to sell out to it. Relying on Tremorstaves and WW is pretty mediocre in general as well. Remember, you still have to get boots on the ground to start doing damage.

10 Immortals- Gauss blasters- 170

So far, I've seen Tesla to be the better of the two options. You would also save points by dropping the Phaeron.

8 Warriors- 105
7 Warriors- 91

I don't really get these. If you are using them to run in from reserves to cap backfield objectives then just take 5. If you want a frontline threat or a unit that will actually help you then I'd just use more Immortals with Tesla.

C'tan Shard- Swarm of Spirit Dust, Writhing Worldscape- 240

I tried a C'tan and really didn't like it. It may be a decent MC, but MC's in general have issues. Think of it this way, outside of cover (and it will be lots of the time), two Venoms will statistically take it down in one turn. Pretty awful. It really isn't as resilient or scary without toughness 8 as even normal bolters en masse will do things to it. The 4+ save isn't good enough either.

8 Canoptek Scarabs- 120
8 Canoptek Scarabs- 120
2 Canoptek Spyders- 100
2 Canoptek Spyders- 100

Pretty standard stuff. You might want to consider a gloom prism or two.

5 Canoptek Wraiths- 2 particle casters, 2 whip coils- 205

Love Wraiths, don't love Particle Casters. Seems like a waste of 10 points. Otherwise Solid unit.

Overall, I'd go:

Overlord w Scythe-100
2 Crypteks, 1 w Pulse- 90
Immortals 10 w tesla-170
Immortals 10 w tesla-170
Immortals-5 w tesla-85
Immortals-5 w tesla-85
5 Warriors-65
5 Warriors-65
8 Scarabs-120
8 Scarabs-120
2 Spyders, 1 w gloom-115
2 Spyders, 1 w gloom-115
5 Wraiths, 2 coils- 195

Total:1495

This is assuming that you want no vehicles.

On argument for the Particle Casters on the Wraiths is they add one more Wound before having to remove models. Also adding a little bit of 12" tickle for the wraith unit for a measly 5 points. S6 is at least enough to pen most trasnsports, which could result in it being popped or at least Immobed once the wraiths get in assault range.

If you're willing to have some vehicle support in the army while keeping the footslogging theme I'd go big on the Warrior squads as opposed to the Immortals. Two 15-20 Warrior squads each supported by an Ark and/or a Lord with Res Orb? That unit is going to be around to wreck your opponent's day for a long time!

I'd also recommend throwing the Overlord in a Barge and trading out the Spyders for Annihilation Barges, but that's just my preference at the moment =)

JGrand wrote:
Overlord w Scythe-100
2 Crypteks, 1 w Pulse- 90
Immortals 10 w tesla-170
Immortals 10 w tesla-170
Immortals-5 w tesla-85
Immortals-5 w tesla-85
5 Warriors-65
5 Warriors-65
8 Scarabs-120
8 Scarabs-120
2 Spyders, 1 w gloom-115
2 Spyders, 1 w gloom-115
5 Wraiths, 2 coils- 195

Not bad, but I'd want a way to get 2 or 3 annihilation barges in there. Those things will help with killing transports at range....and they maul infantry too. Those things just have a stupid amount of dakka they can put out.

ShadarLogoth wrote:

mercer wrote:On the new list, I do not see the point in the Warriors. They are not doing anything. What are they meant to be doing?

C'Tan Shard is the biggest monstrous creature in terms of model size, it will attract all the fire power and then die. It's not massively hard to kill with the right army and costs loads of points. I would drop this.

Trygons are bigger

I think the idea of shard in the case is to saturate the STR 8+ weapon targets, (Wraiths as well). I've had pretty good luck keeping my shards alive but I tend to run some bigger threats that get focused first and a Mono with it's awesome LOS blocking skills.

Indeed they are, but Necrons don't have Trygons

Maybe, but I am not seeing many S8 weapon targets. Spyders will be as monstrous creatures, Wraiths maybe a little bit but small arms will bring them down thanks to weight of fire power. That leaves just a C'Tan if I am right. With or without the C'Tan that's not a huge amount of targets attracting S8 fire power.

Not bad, but I'd want a way to get 2 or 3 annihilation barges in there. Those things will help with killing transports at range....and they maul infantry too. Those things just have a stupid amount of dakka they can put out.

I like them too (and use three myself) but the OP wanted footslogging. I actually think Crons will be best in hybrid form. Normally, you like target saturation with lots of mech, but I think that even 3-5 AV 13 vehicles will be a tough nut to crack in conjunction with Wraiths, Scarabs and night fight. Cron transports are a bit too pricey for my liking.

JGrand wrote:

Not bad, but I'd want a way to get 2 or 3 annihilation barges in there. Those things will help with killing transports at range....and they maul infantry too. Those things just have a stupid amount of dakka they can put out.

I like them too (and use three myself) but the OP wanted footslogging. I actually think Crons will be best in hybrid form. Normally, you like target saturation with lots of mech, but I think that even 3-5 AV 13 vehicles will be a tough nut to crack in conjunction with Wraiths, Scarabs and night fight. Cron transports are a bit too pricey for my liking.

Hmm, so something like:

Overlord- warscythe, Resurrection Orb, Phaeron- 150
-Royal Court- Herald of Destruction w. Solar Pulse- 55
20 Warriors- 260
-Ghost Ark- 115
5 Immortals- tesla carbines- 85
5 Immortals- tesla carbines- 85
8 Canoptek Scarabs- 120
5 Canoptek Wraiths- 2 particle coils- 195
3 Canoptek Spyders- gloom prism- 165
Annihilation Barge- 90
Annihilation Barge- 90

Total: 1410

Which I suppose leaves enough room for an extra Wraith, or maybe more numbers on the Immortals or another Royal Court member (either another Cryptek, or a Lord w. scythe to bulk the Warriors). Of course, I could always drop the Phaeron upgrade, trade the Warriors and Ark for 10 Immortals, and take some Heavy Destroyers or another swarm of Scarabs plus maybe a Stalker.

Yes, I realize that this breaks the footslogging theme, but I still don't know how adverse the Necron player will be to buying new vehicles. I know, at least, that she doesnt like the whole "paddleboat" look of the Barges, but I think that can be avoided with careful modelling.

Hmm, so something like:

Overlord- warscythe, Resurrection Orb, Phaeron- 150
-Royal Court- Herald of Destruction w. Solar Pulse- 55
20 Warriors- 260
-Ghost Ark- 115
5 Immortals- tesla carbines- 85
5 Immortals- tesla carbines- 85
8 Canoptek Scarabs- 120
5 Canoptek Wraiths- 2 particle coils- 195
3 Canoptek Spyders- gloom prism- 165
Annihilation Barge- 90
Annihilation Barge- 90

Total: 1410

I'd prob go:

2 Overlords w Scythe, Tac Arrow, CCB-360
2 HoD with Pulse- 110

4x7 Immortals-476

4 Wraiths w 2 coils-160
7 Scarabs-105
7 Scarabs-105

2x Annihilation Barges-180

Total: 1496

If you want to mix and match.

JGrand wrote:I like them too (and use three myself) but the OP wanted footslogging. I actually think Crons will be best in hybrid form. Normally, you like target saturation with lots of mech, but I think that even 3-5 AV 13 vehicles will be a tough nut to crack in conjunction with Wraiths, Scarabs and night fight. Cron transports are a bit too pricey for my liking.

Footslogging doesn't mean "no vehicles".

Just means not transports. Necrons still need range fire-support to take out light vehicles which comes from Annihillation Barges, Triarch Stalkers, Heavy Destroyers, Harbingers of Destruction, and Night/Doom Scythes.

I wouldn't put Doomsday Arks (should be murdering infantry/heavy infantry) on that list.

Since his fast attack is used up, and he's not taking multiple Destro Crypteks, I'd say Barges are the best option for that list.

Also tachyon arrows are fail - 30 points for a single S10 hunter killer, no thanks. Only worth taking if you have a triarch stalker.

I've been listening to a lot of podcasts on Necrons, reading a lot of blogs, and watching many battle reports. These are a few common elements I have gleamed that might help you.

1) People bringing units of 20 necron warriors are bringing a ghost arc behind them. This serves two functions.
- Resurrection of fallen warriors
- Directing fallback movement to maximize the time the unit stays on the board. This allows you chances to go above half strength again and rally.
This means in order to wipe out the unit of warriors you must be killing more than 3 a turn. Given a ress orb and Ress protocols, that's annoyingly tough. If you have two such blocks, you have to kill over 6 a turn, as the second arc can help ress on the first unit.

2) Mindshackle scarabs are great tools. I would highly advise them on every lord or overlord. I mean, really... the ability to make Mephison force weapon himself to death is just priceless... It also works to neutralize power fists or other ICs.

3) If you take two overlords, you can take two royal courts. Most people are playing with the rule that you can put one character from each royal court into a squad, allowing you to take a lord and a cryptek in each of your warrior/immortal squads.

mercer wrote:Also tachyon arrows are fail - 30 points for a single S10 hunter killer, no thanks. Only worth taking if you have a triarch stalker.

Chronomotron can help it substantially as well, but I would only go this route if you have a plan for the chrono outside of just this OS.

The permutations are bit of a hassle while I'm at work, but you have an 88% chance of doing something to AV 11 and lower vehicles, and should average about .70 or so dead Ravagers per shot, or .50 or so with FF.

Against an LR you're look at 61 % chance of doing something, and average about .30 ish dead LR's a turn.

Not a horrible trade for 30pts.

It won't be .30ish dead Land Raider's a turn because the arrow is one shot. So it is 30 points to take out one target.

mercer wrote:It won't be .30ish dead Land Raider's a turn because the arrow is one shot. So it is 30 points to take out one target.

Right thats what I meant, sorry my wording was a bit odd. but still, 30 points to destroy a 250 point vehicle roughly a a third of the time, and do something to it another third of the time, on the first turn.. Really not that awful, and the LR is an extreme example. With something like a Ravager you have more of a coin flip to kill it.

The only time it would be handy if with a Cryptek with chronometron. Firing at a Land Raider wouldn't be the best as you only have 50/50 chance to take it out, something weak is needed, like a Ravager, like you mentioned.