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Okay,

Due to a primer incident (which I'm amazed wasn't my fault) I'll be having to re-buy several units. So I have the chance here to correct some mistakes I made in the past. Such as taking Power Fists on normal Grey Hunter models. Things like that. Also going to have some fun doing some conversion work so I'm pretty excited about the prospect. Before I re-buy anything though I figured I'd get an all-comer's list hammered out.

So far, play tests have been good but some of it has been luck (you would not believe how bad a Daemon Prince whiffed it last night!) so I'll be doing more games. I'm hoping some fellow veterans can point out some perceived flaws. I use basically the same list for 1750 and 1850, just dropping the Lone Wolf in 1750 point games. I'm sure there will be suggestions I'll end up ignoring but no worries there! I still want to hear them all.



Tactically, the list is fairly flexible. I believe flexibility in an Army List is key to being a strong Space Wolves player. The unpredictability is important sometimes. Obvious example: with my Wolf Guard I can keep the Terminators together with the Rune Priest to get a mobile firebase with the Cyclone Missile Launcher and Living Lightning, or I can spread them out among the packs. And when i spread them among the packs, I can turn my small Grey Hunter unit (used for holding home objectives typically) as a third Long Fang pack.

I'm new to using Thunderwolves. I've avoided them for a long time because they're a bit silly. Truth is though, they're a better investment than Stormclaws and I need something that can move fast and hit hard in combat. I have not been using them well but despite that I've managed to not lose (several draws, more wins).

Enough rambling, let me know what you all think!

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Either the list is lack luster and bog standard or its fairly balanced without a lot of wiggle room. This is both good and bad lol.

This list sufferes from the fact that it's a foot slogger, you have to cover a lot of ground in a 1850 game board, this list means you either have to weather lots of fire that will cripple squads in the open or hug cover and take even longer to cover the board.

You have not got a lot of anti-armour there, living lightening can pop a rhino but 5 ranged weapons that have anti armour capabilities is not enough, the reason people fill long fangs with missile launchers as they can do both troop and armour, the heavey bolters do fulfill a role but you need more anti armour.

Terminators are rarely worth it on their own as wolf guard squad leaders but if you are using them as a squad they will just spend their time taking all the heavy fire unless you drop pod them in somewhere.

The wolf scouts are lacking a plan, they have sniper rifles which are ok but if you are using a melta gun then you need to focus on that *more anti armour* put a wolf guard with combi melta on that squad and you have a real threat to long range fire support tanks, dakka preads etc. Sniper rifles are ok but save the points for better things.

The wofl guard battle leader needs runic armour as that makes him less subject to missile death, he also needs to drop the frost blade, it's ok but a wolf claw would give you more cc hitting power. Another thing to give him would be a saga maybe warrior born or beastslayer depending on what you want to do.

Plasma guns are not my choice, they are ok but the 1/3 chance of a wound puts me off, melta is my prefered tool, can pop tanks, instant kill characters etc.

My main advice would be mout the grey hunters in rhinos.

as a wolf player everything should really be in transports, i'd also drop the wolf scout pack and take another lone wolf (their alot better than alot of people give them credit for) if you drop terminator armor from all the wolf guard you can fit rhinos into your list

liturgies of blood wrote:This list sufferes from the fact that it's a foot slogger, you have to cover a lot of ground in a 1850 game board, this list means you either have to weather lots of fire that will cripple squads in the open or hug cover and take even longer to cover the board.

It's really not as bad as you'd think thanks to the cover save rules. Deployment and movement is more complicated than if I was fully mounted. May not be in a tin can but I have more bodies. Not all that much slower either.

liturgies of blood wrote:
You have not got a lot of anti-armour there, living lightening can pop a rhino but 5 ranged weapons that have anti armour capabilities is not enough, the reason people fill long fangs with missile launchers as they can do both troop and armour, the heavey bolters do fulfill a role but you need more anti armour.

I may very well be changing the Long Fangs to all Missile Launchers. Considering its 15 points cheaper per unit as well its not a bad bargain. The only trade off being I can't hurt AV 14 at range. Course I think I could keep a single Lascannon in each squad and maintain the point cost. Will have to play test more to see what I really miss.

Also keep in mind that all the Plasma weapons can hurt the same things Living Lightning can. That's anywhere from 8 to 24 S7 shots depending on range and dice rolls without counting the Long Fangs or Wolf Guard. 3 of the Wolf Guard have Combi-Plasma so that's 3-6 addition S7 shots once per game, and I have a Cyclone Missile launcher on top for an extra 2 S8 shots. Really, AV13 and AV14 is all that worries me which is why I was focusing on Lascannons for the Long Fangs.

Believe me, range isn't as big of a problem as one would think against most armies. Imperial Guard and Tau gun lines worry me, but i don't currently face many. Will be having a friend run his Guard heavily once he has some time so I can see how I need to adapt there.

liturgies of blood wrote:
Terminators are rarely worth it on their own as wolf guard squad leaders but if you are using them as a squad they will just spend their time taking all the heavy fire unless you drop pod them in somewhere.

Terminator armor is 5 points and it gives me some slight flexibility. The key of the army is the Grey Hunters anyways, so any fire not being aimed at them is okay by me. And ignoring the Terminators entirely is just foolish, provided they aren't leading packs.

liturgies of blood wrote:
The wolf scouts are lacking a plan, they have sniper rifles which are ok but if you are using a melta gun then you need to focus on that *more anti armour* put a wolf guard with combi melta on that squad and you have a real threat to long range fire support tanks, dakka preads etc. Sniper rifles are ok but save the points for better things.

Again, the Scouts are set up for flexibility. The two sniper rifles cost a whopping 6 points total Being on the model with the Meltagun and the model with the Mark of the Wulfen, it doesn't affect their assault capabilities. If I end up infiltrating them or they come on the wrong board edge, they may at least be able to do something. There's already a Wolf Guard in power armor in the list with a Combi-Melta. I don't see the point to any changes to this unit.

liturgies of blood wrote:
The wofl guard battle leader needs runic armour as that makes him less subject to missile death, he also needs to drop the frost blade, it's ok but a wolf claw would give you more cc hitting power. Another thing to give him would be a saga maybe warrior born or beastslayer depending on what you want to do.

Haven't seen the need for spending that many points on a 2+ save. The only things that are a worry get taken of with the 3++ from the Storm Shield. I chose S6 and no saves over the Wolf Claw because hitting on a 3+ and wounding on a 2+ makes me happy and I at least seem to perform better when equipped as such. I originally had him with Saga of the Warrior Born but couldn't justify its cost when I was building this specific list. I cut it out and a handful of other things to add a third Thunderwolf model instead.

I'll give you, it sometimes (often even) is spectacular. Getting 4 or more extra attacks is wonderful. My opponents just seem to focus fire on the Thunderwolves however so I needed some more wounds there.

liturgies of blood wrote:
Plasma guns are not my choice, they are ok but the 1/3 chance of a wound puts me off, melta is my prefered tool, can pop tanks, instant kill characters etc.

Rarely see a T4 character going solo. Being more deadly against AV 12 is nice however. Every game I try swapping it out I end up missing the extra AP2 shots from rapid fire.

1/6th chance to wound, then 1/3rd chance to fail the save. What is that? 0.0555555556? So 5.5% chance of dying every time you shoot. I'll take it. But to each his own. Meltaguns are definitely awesome weapons.

liturgies of blood wrote:
My main advice would be mout the grey hunters in rhinos.

Dashyl wrote:as a wolf player everything should really be in transports, i'd also drop the wolf scout pack and take another lone wolf (their alot better than alot of people give them credit for) if you drop terminator armor from all the wolf guard you can fit rhinos into your list

I've done the armored assault thing. In third edition. Rhino rushing Blood Claws was fun. I get that isn't the point to APCs in this version of the game, but I've always wanted an all infantry force and Space Wolves are obviously designed with that as an option. I'll take the path less traveled. May not have as much of my army left at the end of the game but boy does the enemy know he's been in a fight!

Also, I spent 20 points on Terminator armor. That's not enough for a single Rhino. I'd have to drop some Grey Hunters too. And if I'm doing that I'll want to take a few Razorbacks, which means I'd have to drop even more which completely changes the point to the list.

Also also, dual Lone Wolves is overkill. I've done it, its fun, but I just don't see the need and feel the Scouts will be more useful. Only 30 points more than a second Lone Wolf would be (less if I ditched the ablative wounds, but then I have to worry about them dying to shooting).


Thanks for the replies! They're about what I expected for the most part, though I definitely think I need to just suck it up and do all Missile Launchers (or 4 ML and 1 LC).

cowmonaut wrote:
It's really not as bad as you'd think thanks to the cover save rules. Deployment and movement is more complicated than if I was fully mounted. May not be in a tin can but I have more bodies. Not all that much slower either.

I know space marines are tough, space wolves especially but I rarely like getting caught in the open or in cover, you're squads are big enough to take the hits but putting wolf guard leaders on them would make them that little bit tougher and would give them a cc edge.

I know what you mean with land raiders and other AV14 tanks, I also play blood angels and the lazcannon and melta are the only things that keep me safe there.

cowmonaut wrote:
Terminator armor is 5 points and it gives me some slight flexibility. The key of the army is the Grey Hunters anyways, so any fire not being aimed at them is okay by me. And ignoring the Terminators entirely is just foolish, provided they aren't leading packs.

I would take the drop pod then if you are using them as a squad, it gives them cover from fire and gets them right up front.

cowmonaut wrote:
Again, the Scouts are set up for flexibility. The two sniper rifles cost a whopping 6 points total Being on the model with the Meltagun and the model with the Mark of the Wulfen, it doesn't affect their assault capabilities. If I end up infiltrating them or they come on the wrong board edge, they may at least be able to do something. There's already a Wolf Guard in power armor in the list with a Combi-Melta. I don't see the point to any changes to this unit.

Fine I was a little off on the 6 points for rifles, I think you have it right with them, not sure they will be a great combat unit but they can take a few men with them from fire.

cowmonaut wrote:
Haven't seen the need for spending that many points on a 2+ save. The only things that are a worry get taken of with the 3++ from the Storm Shield. I chose S6 and no saves over the Wolf Claw because hitting on a 3+ and wounding on a 2+ makes me happy and I at least seem to perform better when equipped as such. I originally had him with Saga of the Warrior Born but couldn't justify its cost when I was building this specific list. I cut it out and a handful of other things to add a third Thunderwolf model instead.

Well the 2+ may seem trivial but it has happened to my wolf lord that he has been taken out by massed fire, he got nailed last time by sheer weight of numbers, 8 bolters, assault cannon flamer and plasma cannon. The plasma happened but he lost the other wounds on rolls of twos.
The warrior born is not always the best choice works good against ork players but that's my meta game.

cowmonaut wrote:
1/6th chance to wound, then 1/3rd chance to fail the save. What is that? 0.0555555556? So 5.5% chance of dying every time you shoot. I'll take it. But to each his own. Meltaguns are definitely awesome weapons.

I don't have a rulebook to hand but I though it was 1 & 2 for gets hot when you rapid fire? That ups it to an 11% chance but I get your point, I prefer my weapons to kill the enemy only, your list will probably be fine for 6th ed, I have a feeling melta will get nerfed so building for plasma may be a good plan.

Have fun and let me know what you are using for thunderwolf models, I will be getting a few more of them in the new year.

liturgies of blood wrote:
I know space marines are tough, space wolves especially but I rarely like getting caught in the open or in cover, you're squads are big enough to take the hits but putting wolf guard leaders on them would make them that little bit tougher and would give them a cc edge.

Which is part of why I'm taking Wolf Guard... I guess I don't see what your argument is.

In my original post I merely mentioned that with the way I have my Wolf Guard set up, I don't always have to make them squad leaders. Maybe that's where the confusion is happening. The flexibility is nice, and sometimes I've been better off with an extra unit than using them as squad leaders.

liturgies of blood wrote:
I would take the drop pod then if you are using them as a squad, it gives them cover from fire and gets them right up front.

Transports cost points so I'd have to cut something out and then they are entirely unsupported by the rest of my army for 1-2 turns depending where they come down. I think I'll keep using them as a mobile firebase and counter charge unit when I don't split them off to lead my Grey Hunters. If I could afford it, I'd like 2-3 drop pods in my army but I haven't yet been convinced they're entirely necessary and as useful as what I'd have to cut out.

liturgies of blood wrote:
Fine I was a little off on the 6 points for rifles, I think you have it right with them, not sure they will be a great combat unit but they can take a few men with them from fire.

12 power weapon attacks plus D6+2 Rending attacks on the charge. As long as you don't throw them at I5+ units they're have been surprisingly useful once they pop a tank when they outflank, and even were able to make last minute assaults on enemy objective holders in two games so far. Just have to be careful where you put them.

liturgies of blood wrote:
I don't have a rulebook to hand but I though it was 1 & 2 for gets hot when you rapid fire? That ups it to an 11% chance but I get your point, I prefer my weapons to kill the enemy only, your list will probably be fine for 6th ed, I have a feeling melta will get nerfed so building for plasma may be a good plan.

'Get's Hot' is on a roll to hit of 1 only. Also if you have anything that lets you re-roll, you only 'Get Hot' if your re-roll is a one.

I agree its likely that in 6th edition Meltaguns won't be quite as good. Really they haven't changed much themselves since 3rd edition, its just that they made vehicles (specifically transports) so much more useful (read: cheaper) that the gun itself is more useful. I'm sure in 6th edition they'll do something to the vehicle damage table to make them slightly weaker.

liturgies of blood wrote:
Have fun and let me know what you are using for thunderwolf models, I will be getting a few more of them in the new year.

I'm buying these:

http://www.shop.microartstudio.com/great-wolf-rider-p-537.html
http://www.shop.microartstudio.com/great-wolf-rider-p-536.html

They annoy me least of all the alternatives. Each one comes with two heads so I'm buying 2 of each.

Thanks for the link, I've seen those wolves around, I may grab one for a second wolf lord and mix it in with some other models I'd like to use.

I misread that you were going to use the wolf guard as a squad only, I was just making the case for squad leaders.