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It would be useful if some one could answer this please..
ok if captain Al'rahem and his platoon are outflanking, but i decied to put the Platoon command squad into a Vendatta squadron to outflank.
do i roll one dice for the whole platoon and vendattes, or do i roll a dice for the platoon and the vendattas or cant the platoon command squad go in them at all?


t

One dice for the whole platoon, as the requirement that the platoon comes in on one roll forces this

Is that one dice for the Whole platoon and the 2vendattas? as part of the platoon is in them.

No the elements in the transports(being non-dedicated) come in when the transports enter(so 1 roll for the platoon; and 1 roll for the vendetta, a third roll for a second vendetta if they are not squadroned).

KK - on what are you basing that on?

The PCS etc are members of the platoon - check
The platoon is *required* to turn up on one roll
The PCS must turn up on the same roll as the rest

If they dont turn up at the same time, then parts of the platoon have not turned up at the same time, breaking a rule

I admit to not having checked the Guard FAQ, so if its covered there, apologies

OK so they have to come in at the same time then if you want the pcs in the vendatta.

nosferatu1001 wrote:KK - on what are you basing that on?

The PCS etc are members of the platoon - check
The platoon is *required* to turn up on one roll
The PCS must turn up on the same roll as the rest

If they dont turn up at the same time, then parts of the platoon have not turned up at the same time, breaking a rule

I admit to not having checked the Guard FAQ, so if its covered there, apologies

It is not in the FAQ; but I can extrapolate why I think your reasoning is wrong, and my reasoning:

When you prepare a unit in a transport, and then roll for those 2 units(squad and transport); Are you rolling for the squad, or the transport?

What happens when you take a pair or trio of Valkyries/Vedettas(in a squadron) and put 1 element of Al'Rahem's platoon into one of them, with 2 non-related squads in the other 2; do you now get the Platoon, the fast attack choice, and 2 other FOC choices all entering at the same time?

What about when you have a Platoon element from 1 Platoon, and a platoon element from another Platoon both embarked on Valks/Vendettas in the same squadron; are Both platoons and the Valks/vendettas all rolled for in 1 single reserves roll?

Dedicated transports(chimeras) are part of the Platoon, so they will always enter along with any other elements in a single Platoon held in reserve.

Elements inside of a non-dedicated transport(of which the valk/Vend are the only ones) would not necessarily arrive with their Platoons but rather be at the mercy of when their transports show up.

I dunno; I play guard, I can dig bringing 2 full platoons and a Valk Squadron in from reserves off of 1 roll; it just doesn't seem right.

Oh i know it doesnt feel right, I just cant see a reason why you're allowed to break a rule - i dont see permission anywhere

Not sure what rule is being broken.

Al'Rahem's is a must, in that the units must outflank(and in this case they are in the Valk/Vendetta).

The Platoons rule is a simple: they are a single troops choice, and are rolled for collectively.

So they must outflank and are normally rolled for collectively, but you are not rolling for the PCS(or whatever element is in the bird); you are rolling for the Bird and element.

Honestly I see no permission to bring outside units in with the platoon's single reserve roll; which would be the only rule being broken.

Wait. I play orks. While I'm tempted to agree with KK, this situation can be carried over to them.

Let's say I have a battlewagon in reserves with 20 boyz. Do I need to roll for the wagon and the boyz separately?

Whatever is the case here can be extrapolated to your bird situation. If I make one roll for the boyz and battlewagon (which is not a dedicated transport), then why can't the platoon and their transports come in on just one roll? Otherwise, the entire platoon can't come in until all the rolls line up. You wouldn't just leave the Vendetta in reserves if it fails its own roll.

I would say, however, that if two platoons are overlapping transports in a squadron, you'd have to roll for each squadron. My reasoning is based on the fact that you are rolling for squads, not transports. Hence, don't overlap your squads.

If I'm missing a rule and look like an idiot, sorry.

You are missing a rule; but you do not look like an idiot.

IG platoons have a special portion to their rules that dictate that all the Units purchased for each platoon is a single Troops choice on the FOC; and that the entire platoon is rolled for collectively for reserves.

The BRB tells us that a Transport vehicle(dedicated or not) with a unit embarked when reserves are prepared; have both units come in on the same reserves roll(basically this does the same thing as the Platoon's rule).

It just seems off to me that for 200-260 points I can have 2 full platoons and 2 Valks/Vends all enter at once from reserves(and the additional cost of Al'rahem grants one of those platoons outflanking) because I have a disposable squad from each platoon in one of the planes.

That rule I missed only serves to cement my argument.

Platoon rolls all at once. Transports roll with the platoon. Therefore, it's all one roll.

The OP does not ask about another platoon. Only the one platoon with Al'ahrem.

excuse me if im wrong, but if vendettas have outflank...why the hell would you need al'rahem???

Al'rahem is for the rest of the platoon. Assuming the rest of the platoon can't fit into the vendettas. The OP stated that just the command squad was going in the vendetta.

At work, so no bgb, but iirc both vehicle and unit need to be able to outflank in order to do so.

Happyjew wrote:At work, so no bgb, but iirc both vehicle and unit need to be able to outflank in order to do so.

Unless it is a dedicated transport.

A unit inside a dedicated transport will confer the ability to outflank onto its dedicated transport. but if the choose to outflank the dedicated transport the troops must move onto the table embarked within it. P.94 BRB

Only the transport needs to be able to outflank/Deepstrike.

Otherwise Drop pods would not work; and Scouts transport in general would be worthless.

A unit will only confer outflank on it's DT; so a unit that can outflank in a non-DT vehicle without it, cannot outflank the vehicle. An example of this would be SM scouts in a Landraider; they can deploy on table, or normally in reserve, but the Land raider cannot outflank.

An IG Veteran Squad in a Valkyrie can outflank just fine, since they go along for the ride in the outflanking valk.