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Optimizing my list...thoughts/comments/feedback appreciated

HQ: 365
Eldrad 210
avatar 155

Troops: 497
Gaurdian x11 w/ lance and spiritseer with conceal and singing spear 167


Gaurdians x10 w/ lance 110

Gaurdian x10 w/ lance 110

Gaurdian x10 w/ lance 110

Elites: 412
Harlies x7 + shadowseer w/kisses 206

Harlies x7 + shadowseer w/kisses 206

Fast attack: 176
Warp spiders x8 176

Heavy: 550
Wraithlord w/ 2flamers + wraithsword 100

War walkers x3 w/ 2 emls each 210

War walkers x 3 w/ 2 star cannons each 240

Total: 2000 exactly

Idk how much exp you have with eldar but I'm curious have you ever tried the eldar wraith guard army? They seem pretty good.

qballony wrote:Optimizing my list...thoughts/comments/feedback appreciated

HQ: 365
Eldrad 210
avatar 155

Troops: 497
Gaurdian x11 w/ lance and spiritseer with conceal and singing spear 167


Gaurdians x10 w/ lance 110

Gaurdian x10 w/ lance 110

Gaurdian x10 w/ lance 110

Elites: 412
Harlies x7 + shadowseer w/kisses 206

Harlies x7 + shadowseer w/kisses 206

Fast attack: 176
Warp spiders x8 176

Heavy: 550
Wraithlord w/ 2flamers + wraithsword 100

War walkers x3 w/ 2 emls each 210

War walkers x 3 w/ 2 star cannons each 240

Total: 2000 exactly

There are a few thoughts/questions I would like to share with you.

1) Have you thought about a squad of 10 fire dragons? For 160 points they will ensure that no enemy wants to bring their stormchickens or other tanks really close to you. They will also attract a lot of fire, which is the only drawback as they are 16 points a model.

2) What is the role of the warp spiders? Are you planning on using them to go after vehicles?

3) Lances on guardians are lackluster. Scatter lasers will get you a better average of returns as you have more shots. Basically your not sitting out of luck if they miss.

4) Replace the starcannon walkers with scatter lasers. In 5th edition, cover is given out like candy and so getting a 4+ cover save is easy. Its better to double the shots and give MEQ a 3+ save.

5) Why don't you give the wraithlord a heavy gun? Its actually got a better BS than a guardian.

labmouse42 wrote:There are a few thoughts/questions I would like to share with you.

1) Have you thought about a squad of 10 fire dragons? For 160 points they will ensure that no enemy wants to bring their stormchickens or other tanks really close to you. They will also attract a lot of fire, which is the only drawback as they are 16 points a model.

2) What is the role of the warp spiders? Are you planning on using them to go after vehicles?

3) Lances on guardians are lackluster. Scatter lasers will get you a better average of returns as you have more shots. Basically your not sitting out of luck if they miss.

4) Replace the starcannon walkers with scatter lasers. In 5th edition, cover is given out like candy and so getting a 4+ cover save is easy. Its better to double the shots and give MEQ a 3+ save.

5) Why don't you give the wraithlord a heavy gun? Its actually got a better BS than a guardian.

1: Fire dragons don't fit into the style of the list, plus with the Wraithlord, Avatar, BLs, and EMLs, tanks just want to stay in cover and not come to me.

2: Warp spiders generally are used to just contest an objective and harassment and probably score 2-3 kill points either on a tank and then warp away and then the unit inside or 2 units...they always earn their points.

3: lances suck with gaurdians but i need the anti heavy tank and thats 4 shots per turn

4: No...I ran that before but had no counter to Termies

5: Did that before but this way the avatar harlies and wraithlord can all RUN across the board together.

Any other thoughts?

qballony wrote:
5: Did that before but this way the avatar harlies and wraithlord can all RUN across the board together.
Any other thoughts?

There are a few problems with this.

1) if the Avatar runs and Eldrad does not... and the Avatar ends up 7 inches away from Eldrad in your turn... no fortune. And no fortune means dead avatar. And if Eldrad is safely inside a squad of guardians, they'll be shooting the heavy weapon and not running. Also you need to pay extremely close attention to 12 inches, because you probably don't want your guardians remembering that they are civilians armed with pea shooters and becoming very very fearfull...
2) Harlies really suck at taking close range fire power like rapid fire from space marines. Really they should be behind your battle lines and bubble wrapped a bit by a guardian squad. That way they can counter charge when something gets stuck into your lines
3) don't want wraithlord to run 12 inches away from your spirit seer!

Anyway I'd go missile + lance on your lord. He can still be capable in close combat, and with 2 entire squads of harlies you really should be set on close combat support.

Don't forget that Harlequins are model per model more effective at killing terminators than Banshees, and just barely less points efficient then them at this. Starcannons cost a ton of points and probably won't do anything that the Harlies can't already handle.

Shadowseers count as psychers for keeping the avatar/wraithlord running.

Avatar might not be fortuned, but if he soaks up fire then thats one more turn my 6 walkers stay alive which is another dead tanks or a squad or two or a tank with the EMLs and then the squad inside with the Starcannons

Starcannons needed...Have you ever thrown harlies against Greyknights? yeah...no bueno...or even storm shields for that matter

Missle/lance has killed like 3 tanks out of 14 games when i was running 2 wraithlords, plus keeps it from running and getting into close combat...another thing is that people don't want to shoot the wraithlord but they don't want it close so mainly can be used to herd an army.

Any other thoughts on it?

Not to be contrary just explaining my thought process if I am wrong let me know.

Just a few thoughts/concerns.

I am assuming you are taking the harlies as counter attack units and not as true assault units. In that case they are cost prohibitive. I would suggest a SS+PW Dire Avenger unit for that role. With Defend they can buy you the turn or two to pull other units out of harms way and/or get your other units into position.

Perhaps scatter lasers to the defenders and switch out one EML for a bright lance on the walker squadron. I would also consider switching the 2nd walker squadron to EML/BL instead of 2 starcannons. Yes it is less ROF but the added lethality of BL and EML to MCs should payoff. Especially if Eldrad is in the vicinity to guide them.

I am a little leary of wraith lords in the current environment with Dark Eldar poisoned weapons. A wraithlord turns into an overpriced warrior at that point. What would I consider for a replacement? 2 walkers with shuriken cannons or if I could scrape the points, get 3 dark reapers with the exarch setup with crack shot and a tempest launcher. Or if you want another anti-tank shot, quick shot and an EML. 2 S8 shots with a BS5 gives you a pretty nasty surprise.

Good start, HQ ok.
I use this but not eldrad and the avatar recently. I`ve got going with Yriel/autarch and my own little seer just now. The little points breaks allow another unit almost.

Harlies are good counter assault units for this type of list. Spot on here. Remember the shadow seers are psykers and the w-lord can run with them.
As much as i hate it yeah dragons are just a got to take, 7/8+ for me.

Ah Guardians. I`ve played since 2nd edition and i still cant get them to be anything better than absolute rubbish at best. Look at it like this youre paying 330 points for 3 BL that hit on a 4+, not good bang for your buck. These guys are not effective long range anti-tank units. I would lose one and I would only have 2 of the basic units and not with lances as there an infantry killing unit, s-lasers work well and i would only keep the s/seer squad with embolden as close objective holders eml maybe.

Warp spiders are my fave unit in the book and i cant fault there inclusion in any eldar list.

WL`s for me perform my ranged Anti-tank role, eml and bl all the way for me. I would recommend losing the starcannon walkers and replacing with another w-lord. 2 is better in the job role you want them in.
I like war walkers but have never owned any but a lot of folk do like them. The weapon set-up is suspect to me starcannons just dont seem to work, even this amount, eml and s/laser for me, 3 of please.

Imagine this! The Avatar flanked by 2 WL with big guardian squads at either side of them, Eldrad behind avatar with dragons, harlequins next to them and this lot can all run not to mention the walkers and warp spiders providing some flank harrying with the seer guardians holding your home objective.

With the few small changes i suggested this would become a solid footdar list with punch. Hope my ramblings help somehow.

It's hard for people to help if you're not willing to change. Everyone of these guys has something that will make the list better.

Guardians need scatterlasers. Nothing is more cost effective with their BS. You might also want to bring like 15 - 20 guys on your front conceal squad to make sure they survive long enough to give everybody else the 4+ cover save. You may not need 4 squads of guardians and fire dragons would pack a big punch. I would drop one squad of guardians and use some of the unspent points from changes to the list to stick in a squad in there.

Instead of doubling up on harlies you can bring 1 squad of harlies and 1 squad of banshees to cover every type of assaulting unit that would be thrown at you. I wipe squads of grey knights when I charge in with my banshees.

Warp spiders don't really have a place in such a slow moving list like a foot list. Their purpose as you have described would be better played out by 10 dire avengers with defend, bladestorm, PW + SS.

Most lists these days would simply ignore a wraithlord trying to run across the board with no long range weaponry. Either drop it or give it something to shoot. Starcannons simply don't work on anything. I used them whenever I only won by pure luck but they are too expensive for what they do. The loadouts that work are 6 EML or 6 Scatterlaser.

Eldar lists need to be capable of about the same amount of speed through out. Hope you found this helpful.

I would have to say this, add another wraithlord, however i would probably give scatter lasers to the guardians and just have a single bright lance on the wraithlord (bs 4 after all). Eml is good for av 12 and less where as a brightlance is good for av 13 and 14. I would try to squeeze another wraithlord in there if i could with the bright lance again. (you wont need the squad of walkers with the starcannons (as mentioned earlier starcannons are one of the worse choices simply due to cover saves and the bs 3 walkers....)

Also i would beef up a couple of those guardian squads, just give them more bodies as it makes them more durable. also i would axe one squad of guardians and take a 5 man squad of rangers to sit behind on an objective (going to ground to gain 2+ cover if necessary) and still be able to shoot their rifles 36".

Il say right now harlies dont sit right with me, at all. Sure they're great in close combat, but you have to get them there and in a foot list this is much easier said than done. granted the shadowseer helps but still at close range bolters tear apart a 5+ save be it invulnerable or not.

And i have to agree, with helvost, if you want to optimize your list you will have to change something as we can point out the inefficiencies in your list but if you're not willing to change anything theres no real way to progress.

Just my 2 cents Good luck!

Great suggestions.

I am going to experiment with switching gaurdian squads to SLs and the starwalkers to BLs and add an exarch to warp spiders or possibly two troupe masters to each harly squad...

I am a bit wary of banshees but if i still have problems with gk ill try proxying some before i buy any.

I have lost faith with wraithlord heavy weapons...always gunned at...never kills stuff so why not run it cheap with the avatar.

Pathfinders would probably be a ggreat call. I need to think about it more.

Thanks