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How does it work when you choose to target an IC in close combat but he is attached to a unit?

If all your attacks go against him, and you score several wounds, do all wounds get allocated to the IC, even if that means some of the wounds just disappear if you kill him? Can the player who controls the IC choose to allocate the wounds to the rest of the unit?

Page 49 tells you that the IC is treated as a separate unit when resolving attacks

So just simply treat him as a separate unit when attacking and dealing with wounds.

But in that case, if the attacker doesn't specify who he's attacking, how can the defensive player choose to allocate wounds to both the IC and the unit?

I've been playing that the defending player can spread wounds to the unit or IC if the attacker doesn't specify what he's attacking.

And I've been playing that all wounds can only go against the IC if it is specifically picked out (which i am now convinced is right based on what you said Nos).

You cannot, is the answer

The attacking model HAS to state WHICH unit it is attacking; the IC or the joined unit.

Remember models only in btb with the IC must attack the IC (no choice) and vice versa.

The attacker HAS to specify who he is attacking with each attack. If the attacker doesn't specify, the rules don't tell us how to handle it, as the rules assume you follow them.

Edit: Ninja'd!

Hmmm, I have been playing it wrong then.

Does the IC not have to come forward in CC and join in? Can he just stay in the back row and avoid being attacked (if that is where he happens to be)? If true, can the defending player still allocate wounds to the IC if I attack the unit he is attached to?

Sorry to pester you with this but none of my gaming group know how this works as we don't generally play at GW or anything - just at each other's houses.

You can only hit units that are in BtB contact. Since an IC is a separate unit for the purposes of CC, if they aren't in BtB with any model, they can't be hit.

A note on this, however, as part of the defenders react rule, you have to move models into BtB contact if at all possible (you could totally fill spaces with canon-fodder however)

Attacks against the unit (not the IC) can never be allocated againsst the IC.

The IC must attempt to reach btb (moving first or asap) if his unit is making a charge reaction or pile-in, but can lag back if he is in the charging unit.

And you'll probably learn the rules better by NOT playing at GW......

If, when you assault, the IC cannot get into b2b contact, he cannot attack nor be attacked. If you are assaulted, you MUST move the IC first if possible to get into b2b. After the assault phase, if there is a pile-in (in other words, neither side fled combat or was wiped out), again the IC MUST be moved first to get into b2b. If he is not b2b, you cannot allocate wounds to him.

Shrike325 wrote:(you could totally fill spaces with canon-fodder however)

Reread page 49 of the rulebook, under 'Independent Character & Assaults', third paragraph. The IC must move first.

Edit: Only on pile-in and reacts.

So, if the IC is not in b2b but is in the second row, he cannot have wounds allocated to him? The only time he can attack, be attacked or have wounds allocated to him is if he is in b2b?

And the IC MUST move into b2b whenever possible whether that is a defenders react move or a pile in after the first round of CC? The IC moves first.

I'm guessing the rules for CC and shooting are different then because an IC with a good invul save can choose to take wounds from an AP1/AP2 shot. In CC it doesn't work like that?

Also what about things like cleansing flame where all models in the unit take a hit - does the attacker have to choose then as well?

Thanks for your help on this Dakka!


Automatically Appended Next Post:

don_mondo wrote:
And you'll probably learn the rules better by NOT playing at GW......

I remember when I first started playing and it was the old Daemonhunters codex and a staff member at GW told me I could paint tac marines grey and call them GK and he told me GK could go in Rhinos, which they could not in the old codex I think - he was trying to get me to buy a Marine battle force or something similar I didn't really want iirc.

My faith in GW started to waver then but you can still pick things up from people who play in the store but yeah, GW staff aren't the most reliable source of rules clarification.

Shrike325 wrote:You can only hit units that are in BtB contact. Since an IC is a separate unit for the purposes of CC, if they aren't in BtB with any model, they can't be hit.

A note on this, however, as part of the defenders react rule, you have to move models into BtB contact if at all possible (you could totally fill spaces with canon-fodder however)

this is not entirely true. Those within 2" of a model in BtB may also attack and be attacked. To then keep the IC safe you would have to keep him out of BtB and more than 2" away from a model in BtB. In that case he could not attack nor could he take wounds.

dbsamurai wrote:this is not entirely true. Those within 2" of a model in BtB may also attack and be attacked. To then keep the IC safe you would have to keep him out of BtB and more than 2" away from a model in BtB. In that case he could not attack nor could he take wounds.

Those within 2" of a model from the same unit may also attack and be attacked.

IC's count as a separate unit. They can not attack or be attacked if they are not in base contact.

dbsamurai, only models that are b2b, or within 2" and the same unit can attack. In order for the IC to attack/be attacked it MUST be b2b.

Edit: Should have refreshed before hitting submit, wouldn't have been ninja'd...

ColdSadHungry wrote:But in that case, if the attacker doesn't specify who he's attacking, how can the defensive player choose to allocate wounds to both the IC and the unit?

I've been playing that the defending player can spread wounds to the unit or IC if the attacker doesn't specify what he's attacking.

Nope, you must state which of your models are attacking which enemy unit before rolling the dice to hit. If you didn't then probably the best way to go is to completely re-do the combat.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

ColdSadHungry wrote:So, if the IC is not in b2b but is in the second row, he cannot have wounds allocated to him? The only time he can attack, be attacked or have wounds allocated to him is if he is in b2b?

You're mixing up wound allocation with the attack declaring attacks. Wound allocation is done within unit after hit/wounds have been rolled for. In order to attack separate units in CC like an IC + unit the attacker must declare how he is splitting up is attacks (following the normal rules for figuring out which models are engaging which unit). Wound allocation never comes into play between different units.

In you example that attacker has no models that are engaging the IC so nothing can attack him.....the IC also can't attack anyone.

And the IC MUST move into b2b whenever possible whether that is a defenders react move or a pile in after the first round of CC? The IC moves first.

Well the IC always must trying to get into B2B....every model has to try and engage. The thing is that with pile-in, defenders react,etc he has to move first. You you charge and the IC isn't the closest point-to-point model you can move every other model first to try and keep the IC from reaching B2B, but he must still attempt to do so.

I'm guessing the rules for CC and shooting are different then because an IC with a good invul save can choose to take wounds from an AP1/AP2 shot. In CC it doesn't work like that?

Exactly

Also what about things like cleansing flame where all models in the unit take a hit - does the attacker have to choose then as well?

Cleansing Flame is done before attacks are made so the IC is still considered part of the unit. He isn't 'separate' until attacks are made.