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What do people think about me using a Artillery Spotter vehicles as stand ins for the artillery found in the Guard Codex?

For the model I was thinking of mounting a Forgeworld Centaur on a base that's roughly the same size as a Chimera and sticking on a load of antenna and optical instruments, or using a miniature similar to the Griffon found in my Guard Blog. Fluff wise I'm thinking about the practicality of wheeling out a vehicle than can fire a good distance right onto the front line (I've been considering already using a comms vehicle as a stand in for a Deathstrike for this same reason). These would only be stand ins for Basilisks due to their extreme range and to prevent complications.

Also fluff wise I'm playing a Guard Regiment who's purpose is to be line breakers. By this I mean lots of heavy tanks and mechanised infantry. It would be hardly practical to have artillery following such a formation as it would be in constant redeployment, whereas if there was in field spotters for them instead, with the artillery themselves being miles away, it would be more practical.

I'm just trying to consider how people who go to games workshop itself would react to this. Most of the time I'm playing at a club, and have enough randomness already that this wouldn't matter much, but I know that some people can be a little uptight about "count-as" units. Thoughts?

That's a pretty cool idea, I like it.

I think you'll be okay as long as you are very clear with your opponents about what vehicle is what.

This may also just be an exscuse for me to buy some of those Centaur models. ...True they are ridiculously priced, more than a Leman Russ for just one, but they are damned sexy things. ^^

I would like it. Make it a two man team, sort of like a heavy weapons team. Give them the basic guardsmen stat line. Except they have stealth, come equiped with camo cloaks. So, basicly in cover, they would at least have a 3+ save. If a target is within twelve inches, the artillery can reroll the scatter.

I was thinking of using a vehicle due to the comparable stat line (its a counting basilisk, it has a hullmounted weapon as you can see, but the Earthshaker's a few miles back and it has the same footprint). Sure using infantry could also work, but its just not in the style of my army and is a little too similar to the master of the Ordance (and I'm already using a similar idea with him).

In the Army, we have a person called a forward observer. That is their job. They go out, in small teams, send data to the artty units, observe splash down (where the rounds fall) and relay adjustments to the artty unit. It can be done out of a vehicle, but, way more noticeable.

As far as the "forward observer" model, it would be nothing like the MoO. As stated, a two man base, way out forward of your army, with stealth, infiltrate, scout. I would have them something like this:

Heavy support option for any artillery unit:

two models per large base. basic stat line for guardsman. If they are within 24 inches of the artillery unit, the scatter dice can be rerolled.
unit has stealth, infiltrate, and scout.

+40 points: attach a forward observer unit to your unit
+5 points: add vox caster. this doubles thier range back to the artillery unit. (from 24 inches to 48 inches)
+5 points: binoculars: can see vehicles and units behind cover
+20 points: "precision rounds" once per game, an artillery unit may shoot, without rolling to scatter, and hit target with precision rounds. (we know the imperrium cannot tollerate the waste of good ammo)

It sounds a really cool modelling idea. I wouldn't have a problem with it.

@ martin74

Yeah I can understand that. If I could take more Master of Ordance (and if they would serve a more practical purpose) then I'd find a way to stick more of those in. However visibility wouldn't be too high on their priorities due to the amount of larger pieces of armour on the field, but I would consider giving them camoflage (which my tanks don't have). No one likes getting shot at. ^^

No, my idea of what i am getting is that they are a forward unit. Trust me, these guys are forward, they are called that for a reason. No, they will not be with your normal units. that is why they would have infiltrate.

With this unit I'm trying to still stay within the confines of the codex's rules. The book doesn't allow for small teams of specialists (the closest option available being special weapons squads), so I'm just going for what the closest option is bar actually just wheeling the artillery out on the field. I guess that I'd be allowed to use my own rules at the club, but I'm looking for things that I can use in a Games Workshop shop. =P

I would be fine with making that sexy little buggy a counts as, with huge optics and antennas put on it, and saying that pie plates are raining in from the guns sitting off the table"

The couple of other guys running around making pie plates scatter less.. not so much..

who knows, maybe they will come up with this idea in the next codex. doubt it would survive well in actual game play.

It's a good idea. And you're doing it the expensive way, lol. I'd just use a Chimera or something else easily picked up on the "cheap" on EBay if I was worried about it being a GW model for legality. Could then mount a sensor array and optics atop the Chimera instead of the gun turret.

Veteran Sergeant wrote:It's a good idea. And you're doing it the expensive way, lol. I'd just use a Chimera or something else easily picked up on the "cheap" on EBay if I was worried about it being a GW model for legality. Could then mount a sensor array and optics atop the Chimera instead of the gun turret.

Yeah, £35 plus postage is going to set me back a hell of way, thus why I'm thinking of using something similar to my Griffon. Similary I've considered having a swapable rear hatch on the back of that thing that'll change to a satellite dish or the like. But yeah, I jotted down some concepts for a Chimera based comms vehicle a while ago that may work, but I feel as though something on the scale of a chimera really would be more fit as a section command vehicle than just as a dedicated artillery spotter (plus I've already got one of those in the works).

Here's a very old wip shot of my griffon:

I'm currently a forward observer for the Army, and your idea definitely has real world examples. Big one I can think of is our BFiST, or Bradley (mounted) Fire Support Teams. Essentially a forward observer team, plus a driver and gunner (iirc, been a while since I dealt with any BFISTers). It's a forward observer team within a fairly durable transport/AFV with all of the targeting, rangefinders, commo equipment, and optics you can possibly jam into that thing's chassis. They're not necessarily a front line unit, but even in 40K Land it makes a heck of a lot more sense than having the self propelled artillery providing direct fire support.

There's also FO teams mounted in lighter transports or command vehicles, but those aren't as similar as the Bradley.

Gotta love the Army with the creative acronyms. I remember they wanted to call the OICW (before it was cancelled) the SABR (Selectable Assault Battle Rifle) just because that sounded cooler than OICW.

Though, to be honest, I'm not sure I'd want to BFiST.

Ah so in modern armies its more common to just convert a standard APC into a observation vehicle than have have use a lighter vehicle (ie one dedicated to reconnaissance)? If that's the case I wouldn't mind using my command vehicle concept instead (plus its a much cheaper option). I'm thinking one of these crossed with a Chimera, but of course with a few more arials etc (just to make it blatantly obvious that it is indeed a comms vehicle) and minus the turret. Though would tracks or wheels be more practical? Tracks would keep the look of my army consistant, and I don't know if wheels would be any more practical. 0.o

If you're looking for actual rules, I think Cities of Death had some rules for FO's.

Take Command Salamanders from IA1, they have actual rules for spotting for artillery strikes etc. Although you do have to buy the artillery strike seperately (which takes an additional Heavy slot).

Ooh sounds interesting. I don't think the original Cities of Death had artillery spotters perse (it may have had a strategem for strikes, but I think it was just like the Inquisition has with there's). Didn't know that command salamanders allowed for those either. I have the old White Dwarf Armoured Companies supplement which included all the tanks available at the time, but I guess the command salamanders came out later than that.

But anyhow, I'm not looking to create new units or bring in units from expansions. What I'm wondering is how viable it is to use rules from the existing guard codex and apply them to count as spotters-thus using spotter vehicles. Using a Salamander probably would work, but I dislike the miniature (despite having three scout ones when a while back), thus why I'm thinking of going for some sort of communications vehicle instead. Rather than mounting a smaller miniature on a base that's the same size as a basilisk or similar artillery piece (like I've down with my count as Collossus...which is instead a heavy walker) just using a vehicle that's the same size would save some diificulties with the range rules. I think that I've gotten the design down well enough on paper now-something that's a cross between a Stryker and a chimera- and will produce a mock up soon enough.

My major problem right now is the tracks. I've run out of wheels and tracks due too many scratch builds and GW no longer produce them. If anyone could provide me a link to where I can buy the original Leman Russ/Chimera kit tracks it'd be much appreciated. ^^