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So, I spent all afternoon calculating the optimal initial positioning of Zagstruck and 15 Stormboyz using his Swoop Attack special rule and the Waaagh! Turns out, he has the Waaagh! special rule, but Stormboyz do not. In fact, it was officially removed by the Ork update. So I am grasping at straws, trying to fenagle something, and was wondering if you Dakkites could help me.

Ork Codex, pg 63, BOSS ZAGSTRUCK: Swoop Attack: "Zagstruck and da Vulcha Boyz must enter the battle via Deep Strike. They may not shoot that turn, but to represent their swooping dive into the enemy ranks they may assault that turn."

So, they explicitly cannot shoot when they land. Can they still run in the Shooting Phase? And if they do, will the provision of the Swoop Attack that they may assault the turn they Deep Strike override the Run! Rule on pg 16?

Signed,
Desperate Stormboy Enthusiast

No.

You may not assault after running, unless you are fleet. This is more specific than you being allowed to assault on DS

Being unable to shoot doesn't generally stop a unit from being able to run. So yes. I see no reason that they couldn't run on the turn they arrive.

However, without Fleet they wouldn't be able to assault after running. The Swoop Attack rule over-rides the normal prohibition on assaulting after Deep Striking, but has no stated effect on the prohibition on assaulting after Running.

I know it is not a Universal Special Rule, but Zagstruck does have the Waaagh! Rule. Does he not bestow it upon a unit he joins, similar to Snikrot's Ambush Rule? Probably not. He probably retains it, but does not confer it to the unit. Poop.

No, he doesn't bestow it. And even if he did it still wouldn't work because Waagh grants Fleet to Infantry specifically, and as Jump Infantry neither the Stormboyz nor Zagstruk can benefit.

I thought you'd already been corrected on this in the other thread...

Waaagh! a) only works on Infantry and b) is removed in the Errata for Stormboyz, warbikers etc.

nosferatu1001 wrote:I thought you'd already been corrected on this in the other thread...

Ghenghis Jon wrote:So I am grasping at straws, trying to fenagle something, and was wondering if you Dakkites could help me.

And, just because somebody makes a statement on here that is true, it doesn't mean that it is always true, or have some loopholes.

There is never any way for Zagstruck to ever benefit from Waagh!, as he is not infantry

Even if he were, fleet is an asterixed USR, and thus is lost by any character joining a unit without that USR and vice versa. I hope that coffin is nailed now.

Stormboyz are effectively using a Waagh! every turn except the one they deep strike anyways.

Jidmah wrote:Even if he were, fleet is an asterixed USR, and thus is lost by any character joining a unit without that USR and vice versa. I hope that coffin is nailed now.

(Pushing on the lid!) Yes, Fleet is an asterisked USR. However, Waaagh! is not.

Which still makes no difference, since Stormboyz aren't infantry.

Evil Ash: You'll never retrieve the Necronomicon! You'll die efore ya get it!
Ash: Hey! What's that you got on your face?
Evil Ash: Huh?
[Ash throws dirt on Evil Ash's face]
Ash: See how that works?

Ghenghis Jon wrote:

Jidmah wrote:Even if he were, fleet is an asterixed USR, and thus is lost by any character joining a unit without that USR and vice versa. I hope that coffin is nailed now.

(Pushing on the lid!) Yes, Fleet is an asterisked USR. However, Waaagh! is not.

Waagh! gives Zagstrukk Fleet. He is joined to a unit without fleet. Asterix removes fleet once again.

Waaagh! doesnt give Zag fleet, as he isnt Infantry

He also isnt an IC, from memory, but a unit upgrade?

Jidmah wrote:Even if he were, fleet is an asterixed USR, and thus is lost by any character joining a unit without that USR and vice versa. I hope that coffin is nailed now.

Stormboyz are effectively using a Waagh! every turn except the one they deep strike anyways.

True, but Boss Zagstruk isn't an IC joining the unit, he's an upgraded member of the unit.

Correct, he can be added to the unit instead of ugrading a stormboy to a nob. A unit still would be disallowed to assault after running unless all models have fleet.

The point was that:
a) THe unit NEVER gains fleet, as not only do they not have Waaagh! (see Errata) even if they did, it only affects infantry
b) Zagstruck never gains Waaagh-Fleet, for the reasons above, and so can never "lose" it by being part of a unit that does not have Fleet

Any my point was that even if he would gain fleet for some weird reasons, for example, because your opponent argues that his unit type is never specified and thus defaults to infantry (like a recent opponent of me did), it would still do nothing.

Really, someone tried that?

He is JI as he has a pack, and the pack makes you JI....

Wow, some people construct some very odd arguments!

Yeah, he is kind of famous for that kind of things. By RAW, units with jump packs do not necessarily require the unit to be jump infantry, but non-jump infantry may not use those jump packs to jump.

The most annoying thing about him is, that he seems to prepare for arguments about misunderstanding stuff on purpose in advance...