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Hi All

Recently been re-reading a lot of my books, and I recently re read Redemption corps. I would like to discuss an element of the book, that only occurred to me the second read through.



Discuss?

It's nothing new under the sun. Orks have been dealing with "gene-sneaker" cults for some time now, and they always do so effectively because "gene-sneaker" Orks are un-orky and therefor not as good as normal Orks-- it's obvious to any normal Ork when an Ork is infected by a "gene-sneaker".

I would guess that it wouldn't be possible for the genestealers to become pure via Orks, since they wouldn't be able to reproduce by fungus or something. Otherwise, there's a massive plot hole there.

Just saying, Orks have long known about genestealers, whom they call "gene-sneakers". They consider them a fun opponent to fight, sure, but AFAIK there's never really been any recorded instance of "gene-sneakers" causing a major incident to Orks, because Orks can instinctively tell the difference between an infected ork (he's un-orky!) and a normal one. They can't subvert Ork society very easily. All they really do is slow the Orks down a bit.

It's nothing new under the sun. Orks have been dealing with "gene-sneaker" cults for some time now, and they always do so effectively because "gene-sneaker" Orks are un-orky and therefor not as good as normal Orks-- it's obvious to any normal Ork when an Ork is infected by a "gene-sneaker".

I haven't come across the idea before if i'm honest, read stuff about nids fighting other species before but never heard of the stealer infestations.

This is kind of what I thought I didn't imagine that an infected ork would last long, disturbance in the waagh or something like that, but in the the book (i know it a dubious source) it's apparent that the entire Waaagh has become infected. Also surely even if an ork did detect the infection there would be no way for them to effectively purge it, due to the orks unqiue reproduction system. Fire is meant to be good way of reducing the spores but would orks think of that?

would guess that it wouldn't be possible for the genestealers to become pure via Orks, since they wouldn't be able to reproduce by fungus or something. Otherwise, there's a massive plot hole there.

yeah i would have thought the Ork had a resiliance to it

The ork species is a biological weapon, and as such has it's own built in coping mechanism for 'infections'. Orks have a natural sense for what is 'orky', e.g. healthy and normal for their species, and naturally reject, e.g. smash, maim, and burn, anything they deem "un-orky". They have a "sixth sense" for unorky behavior and naturally turn on any ork acting off. This is why you don't see many gene-stealer infected orks, chaos orks, etc. The ork species naturally rids itself of such aberrations.

It has been noted that orks continue to battle even at the microscopic level. Orkish spores and bacteria actively seek out and destroy competition, which is why things like nurgle infections (and in this case gene-sneaker spores) don't get too far amongst the general ork population.

Finally, without significant adaptation, it seems like this would not be a fitting life cycle for genestealers. Their life cycle revolves around sexual reproduction. While they can infect orks, I don't think they would be likely to ever reach maturity as a species.

So Redemption Corps in just another case of inconsitent fluff that fails to fit in properly with the rest of the established 40k universe?

Arent orks space fungus?

SpankHammer III wrote:but in the the book (i know it a dubious source) it's apparent that the entire Waaagh has become infected.

Redemption Corps has a lot of problems with it.

yeah I never really trust black library books as source material

Black library books can be good source material. but not all of them are intelligently/competently written, and then there's the writer's own biases to account for (Sandy Mitchel's inability/unwillingness to write a likable religiously devout character, for example).

Just remember all fluff suffers from (benefits from?) unreliable narrators. It is all either biased personal view or propaganda. It is a lot like real history. You should never assume the story is being reported by a reliable, omniscience narrator. Just that people are reporting things as they understood them.

I wouldn't say the orks would persay 'know' someone is 'gene-sneakered' I figure they would see one of a few possibilities of how orks would stop this.

1. during battle a painboy operates on the infected ork and stumbled on the seed. This is unlikely as infected genestealers try to avoid all notice... but since painboyz are kinda like forced dentistry... it'd imagine the medical field would be very insistent upon Op-er-atin!

2. The Gene-Sneaker disobeys / leaves. This is a death sentence in orkish KULTURE. They talk about in the codex that a Nob will kill an ork who forgets a mundane task for him like bringing him his breakfast. Considering the commands of Gene Stealer cults is to withdrawal from society to join up with small groups of their kind to make cults would only spell an excuse for a Warboss or Nob to kill all dem Cowards and Pansies ... and probably some good orks as well

3. General un-orkiness reported, Gretchin unlike orks are keenly perceptive almost on a 6th sense for danger and mistrust. If the dimwitted ork doesn't notice my money is on gretchin taking notice and reporting it as they may be curious... but breaking bread with the biggest ork around by snitching is a wiser investment of their time

4. War, yep pretty simple one here. As often as tribes are warring i think it just wouldn't come to pass as a long term thing as the process IF IT WAS POSSIBLE TO CONVERT ORKINOID DNA (which has been proven true via old school Biovore fluff) then i think it's safe to say since it take generations to play out but orks kill themselves in less than the slow and peaceful ways. I think the Genestealer virus at this point no longer stays with the Ork as these spores aren't corrupted it would be like saying the dead skin from genestealer cultist is capable of transforming into a rabbit... just won't happen.

Orks reproduce so fundamentally on a spore level that they aren't IMO able to be influenced by a genestealer's re-write of yur genetic code to make spores continue the cycle. Basically if the Imperium can't find ways to TRULY remove the ability for an ork to reproduce even inside metal ships (Rogue trader reference) or even discover these spores on a microbial level... i figure it's GW's lazy way of saying it won't happen :p

Well... In reality Wurrzog Orks are actually able to sense the "unorkyness" of someone... their "gestalt" make them feel instinctively when something's wrong...
Personally i think that an entire infected waagh is possible even if very rare... a massive genestealer infiltration could infect so many orks to effectively cripple the ability of healthy orks to react...

Big Mek Wurrzog wrote:I wouldn't say the orks would persay 'know' someone is 'gene-sneakered'

Then you'd be wrong.

They're inherently un-orky, Orks can feel the disruption it causes in their gestalt psychic field, just as Orks can instinctively tell who's "bigga" by the same measurement.

. The Gene-Sneaker disobeys / leaves. This is a death sentence in orkish KULTURE. They talk about in the codex that a Nob will kill an ork who forgets a mundane task for him like bringing him his breakfast. Considering the commands of Gene Stealer cults is to withdrawal from society to join up with small groups of their kind to make cults would only spell an excuse for a Warboss or Nob to kill all dem Cowards and Pansies ... and probably some good orks as well

Sorry might be wrong here but don't storm boyz/Kommados do just this, they seperate them selves fro the main horde because they show un orkish behaviour.

IIRC correctly the storm boyz is the ork equivalent to teenage rebellion

SpankHammer III wrote:
IIRC correctly the storm boyz is the ork equivalent to teenage rebellion

Only in previous editions.

sorry my bad

CuddlySquig wrote:

SpankHammer III wrote:
IIRC correctly the storm boyz is the ork equivalent to teenage rebellion

Only in previous editions.

... by previous editions, of course, you mean the most recent one right?

Right, that's what I thought you meant