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This came up in another Forum, and I wanted to ask Dakka at large what they thought.

Jidmah wrote:Unless two Kanz(the majority) are inside 6", none of them can use the 4+ save. However, as soon as a single kan is within 6", the entire unit will have a 5+ cover save, due to the first part of the KFF.

ORK CODEX, pg 34, Kustom Force Field: "A kustom force field gives all units within 6" of the Mek a cover save of 5+. Vehicles within 6" are treated as being obscured targets."

ORK FAQ, pg 2: "Q: What cover save does kustom force field give to a vehicle within 6" of it? (p35) A: 4+. Note that for a squadron of vehicles only those within 6" of the custom force filed will count as obscured."

Jidmah says that because a squadron is a unit, the vehicles outside the 6" still get a 5+ as long as one is within, and only a majority within would give the squadron a 4+. I have always played it that only the vehicles within the 6" gets any cover save at all, 4+, and those outside get nothing. Do squadrons with some but not all vehicles within 6" of the KFF have the same cover save? And if so, what is it, and how is it determined? If they do not have the same cover save, what are they, and how are they determined?

Actually If a squadron is 1/2 in it's half obscured and is allowed the cover save by the rules. The save in question this instance is a 4+.

You would get a 4+, from how I read the rules. As per the BGB, p64, you first determine whether or not each member of the squadron is in cover, going by the vehicle rules. Then you go by the unit rules for whether or not the unit gets a cover save - so if two out of three kans are obscured, the third gets the cover save even if it's not within 6" of the Mek. What the FAQ is saying is that only the models within 6" count as obscured for the purposes of whether or not the unit gets a cover save, so the Mek does have to be within 6" of 2 of them if they want that cover save.

I hope that wasn't too confusing. It's 2 AM here, and I shouldn't be trying to post about rules.

Ghenghis Jon wrote:Jidmah says that because a squadron is a unit, the vehicles outside the 6" still get a 5+ as long as one is within, and only a majority within would give the squadron a 4+.

He would be correct.

Squadrons get the 5+ as soon as one vehicle is in range, on account of being a unit.
Obscured vehicles gain a 4+ from the KFF as per the Ork FAQ, because GW decided to ignore RAW in this case and go with what the writer of the codex thought he was saying when he wrote the KFF entry. In the case of a squadron, that will give the squadron a 4+ cover save if the majority of the vehicles in the unit are obscured.

Word. Maybe my Kan Wall will last a little longer next time.

I don't think the the ones outside the 6" get a 4+ COVER save (unless 50% of squadron is in 6"), my understanding is vehicles never get a "cover" save, they get an obscured save which can only be granted by Flat Out or 50% obscured.

Thats my 2 cents.

You would be totally and 100% wrong in tthat. Vehicles indeed get cover saves, as detailed in the vehicle rules.

insaniak and Jidmah are correct.

But, I'd like to add that this is one of the most argued about rules. Many players will accuse you of being TFG is you try and use the 5+ save when 1 out of 3 vehicles is in range.

I think that the intent of the rule is for the 5+ to not work on vehicles. This makes more sense when you look at the SAG and see that on a 6, 6 vehicles are both removed from play and get a penetrating hit. I think it's clear that Phil Kelly forgot that vehicles are units when he was writing this codex. But, that's not what is actually written in the codex.

Grakmar wrote:This makes more sense when you look at the SAG and see that on a 6, 6 vehicles are both removed from play and get a penetrating hit. I think it's clear that Phil Kelly forgot that vehicles are units when he was writing this codex. But, that's not what is actually written in the codex.

This was explicitly asked in the Ork FAQ and the answer says that non-superheavy vehicles indeed get removed from the game. So all that funky sentence does is inflict an extra penetrating hit in addition to the d3 a super-heavy would get from a 6,6.

Q. Are models that are immune to instant death (such
as those with Eternal Warrior) removed from the table
when hit by a shokk attack gun that rolls a “Raargh”
result? (p35)
A. Yes, unless they are gargantuan creatures or superheavy
vehicles (see the Apocalypse book).

So GW actually screwed up Kelly's intent twice. At least they're consistent.

Grakmar wrote:Many players will accuse you of being TFG is you try and use the 5+ save when 1 out of 3 vehicles is in range.

How am I TFG when Phil brings his IG against my Kan Wall EVERY TIME?

stupid ig