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I'm in the middle of a delima here with my models and holding a melta gun and a plasma gun and trying to figure out what to put on my guys. Ultimately I think I'm gonna just have to go get more magnets and just drill holes in everything but just curious but what do you guys typically perfer for your vet mech builds?

There's an aweful lot of 3+/4+ saves out there now and big waves of necron/SM/ tough guys where plasma is really starting to shine (except when you explode your own face) but the short range melta is still very nice vs the many mech armies out there as well.

What do you guys think? 50/50?

20/80 more meltas?

80/20 more plasma?

or what's a good TAC build type for those vets. (I have alot of las cannons in the mix already so maybe fill more slots with plasma? or just dump the LC and go grab more bodies?)

I'm also seeing alot of necrons lately and like over 40% of them seem to have the storm lord... I may even swap some vets to blob squads XD

Most of the time go melta, since the IG have a lot of relatively cheap BS4 bodies with them they're more useful since they can cover more roles. Maybe have a few plasma dedicated squads (mainly the command squads since they can have up to 4 of them)

Are you mech, or foot, or both?

Mech guard does better with all melta. The movement of the transports offsets the short range, so that you get all the insta-kill and AP1 benefits of a cheaper gun.

I origionally planned to go all mech but there's so much anti-mech lately especially what with that storm lord guy randomly blowing up parking lots that I'm thinking of going slightly hybrid with mostly mech backbone but with one or two blob squads as either distraction or at least give me options in case of lightning bolt craziness.

Also, GK/blood angels/ wolves being so good with their infantry and gk/wolves can out range/blow up stuff well midfield I'm leaning to putting in some more plasma to gun down power armor equivilent at mid range instead of just short. New necrons also fall into this category.

Am I just over thinking this? stick with the meltas like 80/20 then? (gonna keep at least some plasma though)

I run either 50/50 or 60/40 melta to plasma. Melta is good, but I have never played a game where I wished I had more of it. Plasma is still great to have for dealing with mass termies and even light transports with its higher rate of fire. Plasma burns suck, but what can you do.

Usually the melta is the standard, because they can kill tanks and instant kill most models. But I always reserve one Vet squad with two flamers and a Heavy Flamer to take enemy held objectives in the latter stages of the game.

I have always been a fan of a 2:1 or 3:1 ratio of Melta to Plasma. Like others have said, it is nice to be able to target heavy infantry and vehicles alike. But you always find that there is a target that you wish you had more than 3 or 4 shots.

One of my CCS is always quad Plasma with sometimes a Plasma Pistol.

Then I normally run 2 Vet Squads with a trio of Melta and 1 Vet Squad with a Trio of Plasma.

My blobs always have a Melta as the special.

A good mix of both. Plasma is good against MC and anything with a low armour save. Melta is good against vehicles and low armour save.

I've learnt that if you head up against a lot of weak units and transports, ie Dark Eldar, Plasma Guns shine. They're capable of taking down light vehicles, yet can have a good anti-infantry weapon. Of course, you run the risk of it melting your hand off.
Melta is useful against tough elite armies and Mech, ie MEQ, although they are incredibly short range. So you are likely to have heavy amounts of fire directed at you. However, it is highly ineffective against hordes.

I prefer Melta. Plasma costs add up fast in low point games, and your unit can be wiped out real quick in assault. Plus I roll a lot of ones and always seem to blow myself up.

Plasma guns are as likely to kill your own men as the enemy, especially if you rapid fire.
And after they've killed themselves, they can't shoot any more so you're left with a crippled squad.
Definatley melta guns.

I like a mix, people say plasma is too expensive/risky but in chimera being able to move and fire 6 strength 7 shots is amazing even with the occasional burn. It kills marines MC and is like having an additional hydra. They are way more flexible IMO but the downfall is this can be bad too, making you take more risks then you should Melta vets are the safer bet so it really depends what type of player you are.

I usually go 4 melta and 2 plasma with my vets. I also will usually go 2, 4 plasma commands. I just find my hardest opponents being fast which are usually DE and eldar. In both cases melta is worthless as DE vehicles are too light and Wave serpents negate melta same with avatar.

sudojoe wrote:Am I just over thinking this? stick with the meltas like 80/20 then? (gonna keep at least some plasma though)

What does the rest of your list look like?

The reason that most mechvets commanders go with melta over plasma is because of what they bring in the HS slots. You need to have anti-tank and anti-MEq/anti-MC. The HS options are literally clogged with options that are good against MEq, and even have a few that are decent against MCs, but vehicle-borne anti-tank weapons are shockingly thin in the guard codex.

If you want to put down more plasma than usual, then you're going to need to migrate your HS choices over to manticores and hydras. If you want to take other HS options, then you're stuck figuring out how to blow up vehicles somewhere else, a task which invariably seems to fall onto the vets.

Ailaros wrote:

sudojoe wrote:Am I just over thinking this? stick with the meltas like 80/20 then? (gonna keep at least some plasma though)

What does the rest of your list look like?

The reason that most mechvets commanders go with melta over plasma is because of what they bring in the HS slots. You need to have anti-tank and anti-MEq/anti-MC. The HS options are literally clogged with options that are good against MEq, and even have a few that are decent against MCs, but vehicle-borne anti-tank weapons are shockingly thin in the guard codex.

If you want to put down more plasma than usual, then you're going to need to migrate your HS choices over to manticores and hydras. If you want to take other HS options, then you're stuck figuring out how to blow up vehicles somewhere else, a task which invariably seems to fall onto the vets.

Rest of the list has valk x2
manticore x2
hydra x 1-2, (I can squadron them I suppose and have the manticores as seperate units to cover different areas with pie plates)

also have a squad of ratlings but not really sure I want to field that in this list.

I keep wanting to throw in a plasmacutioner though as I'm seeing alot of spider/scarab spam being popular. Also thinking that a banewolf might be useful too in this capacity. Use like one or two of them to suicide fry all the scarabs with CREEEEED!! giving them scouting.
I'm wobbling on if I want to keep the las cannons in the vet tanks as again I become more of a parking lot but then I want to cover the manticores anyway so it's kind of hard to decide.

bump the valks to vendettas, and you should be able to use a fair amount of plasma to get by.

Ailaros wrote:bump the valks to vendettas, and you should be able to use a fair amount of plasma to get by.

ahh sorry, meant to put in vendetta, just typed valk for some reason. Also, do you guys keep the manticore as a squadron or the hydras as a squadron and have 2 seperate manticores so you can shoot at different areas?

Do you guys ever have any slots free for hellhound squadron?

also manticore vs the russ and possibly plasmacutioner?

Can't squad manticores. Otherwise every guard list would include 9 of them.

Hellhounds and their variants are crappy. The points cost is nearly the same as a russ, all to lose the AV14, which is what makes russes worthwhile. Artillery costs roughly the same for the same AV, but it does more damage, and doesn't require you to get into melta/CC range to use it.

Manticore v russ is pretty solid for the manticore. The russ gains AV14 and is able to beat power armor out of cover, but the manticore gets up to 3x the number of shots, and can use the multiple barrage rule while also being great against vehicles and hordes. The executioner and the manticore don't have exactly the same role, so it's not quite fair to compare them, but an executioner with plasma sponsons is so hideously expensive, I've never seriously considered using one.

Knowing you're doing vendettas, I'd make sure to mix some plasma in 50-50 wouldn't be a bad start. If you bitz order the guns, a single box of cadians can make an awful lot of special weapons guys...

Ailaros wrote:Can't squad manticores. Otherwise every guard list would include 9 of them.

Hellhounds and their variants are crappy. The points cost is nearly the same as a russ, all to lose the AV14, which is what makes russes worthwhile. Artillery costs roughly the same for the same AV, but it does more damage, and doesn't require you to get into melta/CC range to use it.

Manticore v russ is pretty solid for the manticore. The russ gains AV14 and is able to beat power armor out of cover, but the manticore gets up to 3x the number of shots, and can use the multiple barrage rule while also being great against vehicles and hordes. The executioner and the manticore don't have exactly the same role, so it's not quite fair to compare them, but an executioner with plasma sponsons is so hideously expensive, I've never seriously considered using one.

Knowing you're doing vendettas, I'd make sure to mix some plasma in 50-50 wouldn't be a bad start. If you bitz order the guns, a single box of cadians can make an awful lot of special weapons guys...

thank you much for the advice! On the flip side, I'm making it a combo steel legion + death korps of krieg for my infantry. All the plasma are steel legion, meltas.. I'm still working on that, was debating on getting old school storm troopers with meltas or death korps meltas (which apparently come with a stubber guy that I am unsure what to do with)