Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Thread can be locked. See the edit here: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/417254.page#3687202

Just before my next tourny, I want to get a few confirmations on this.

The BRB says that if a squad cannot see the vehicle facing that they are facing, but can instead see a different facing, then the vehicle gets a 3+ cover save to represent the angle needed for the shot.

Would this function how I think, which is any shots to the front of the vehicle, if the side is facing the enemy, give you a 3+ cover save? It's hard to describe, but imagine a shot against the cockpit of a wave serpent if the rest of the side facing is not visible, would that give the 3+ save? A counter argument is that the shot comes from the side, so is still counted as firing against the side, and it's pretty hard to split EGTs into equal facings (there have been arguments before, decided by a D6 roll), so where would the side stop and the front start on an EGT?

I just want to make sure I understand how to handle anything that could potentially come up.

No this is for the situation that you are in the front arc but only the side is visible. Shooting at the cockpit of the Serpent is still in whatever arc you are firing from.

Imagine you have a long line of Eldar Guardians line up in a long string with an EML on the far end. They are technically in the front arc of a rhino however the rhino is up against a building so the entire front of the rhino is blocked to the unit, except the far end EML can see the side of the tank and fires.

No this is for the situation that you are in the front arc but only the side is visible.

I don't understand, where does it say that in the ruling? Also, wouldn't the same go for the rear and the side in your example, therefore contradicting your first sentence?

Avatar 720 wrote:I don't understand, where does it say that in the ruling?

Last paragraph (on the left) of page 62, main rules.

kirsanth wrote:

Avatar 720 wrote:I don't understand, where does it say that in the ruling?

Last paragraph (on the left) of page 62, main rules.

Nope, not there.

It says "...any side of the facing they are in (front, side or rear)..." not 'front only'.

The example makes it a little easier to understand, but I still don't see how the first sentence of the post works unless it was badly worded.

OIC

I think he was stating the same example used in the book.

The rule works the same regardless of the facing involved - it may be the wording.

To put his example in perspective for you:
G= Guardian
E= Eldar Missile Launcher
R= Rhino
X= Wall higher than the Rhino

RRRR
RRRR
RRRR
RRRR
XXXX



GGGGE

The missile launcher can see the rhino's side, but is in the front arc. It can't see the front at all due to the wall in the way. This is the case where you get the 3+ cover. You're right though, it doesn't have to be the front and side specifically. It just needs to be a case where you cannot see the facing of the arc you are in, but CAN see the vehicle on another facing (as above.)

lledwey wrote:To put his example in perspective for you:

Unnecessary, but I appreciate the effort. My issue was with the sentence that implied it only worked if you couldn't see the front facing, not the example itself.

You're right though, it doesn't have to be the front and side specifically. It just needs to be a case where you cannot see the facing of the arc you are in, but CAN see the vehicle on another facing (as above.)

Then could you explain how the EGT cockpit wouldn't be front armour like BlueDagger said it wouldn't? I admit it is difficult to split an EGT into 4 equal facings, but to me the cockpit would be on the front facing, but being shot from the side (as another issue, what about a raised part of the hull on the opposite side from the one you are facing being visible? It is still being shot from the side but resides on another facing); would that be counted as part of the front armour since that is the facing it is on? Or would be it be counted as part of the side like BD said it would be?

Bluedagger said that the cockpit/canopy is whatever facing you're standing in. It's a little trickier with Eldar vehicles, but the canopy is fairly central, and doesn't automatically count as belonging to just one facing.

Really the only way to tell what a given part of the vehicle counts as being is to look from the top down and draw a diagonal "X" using a tape measure or something. If the firing model is standing in one arc of the vehicle, but cannot see any part of that facing of the vehicle, yet can still see part of another facing, it gets to shoot at that visible facing, albeit with 3+ cover.

I know what he said, but I just don't see how it works. If we assume that the cockpit is situated in one facing, then why does it count as another by being shot at? Similarly, what happens to something one an opposite facing that is visible over the top of the tank? What about the cockpit of a Falcon's turret? Would that be the side or rear?

Why are we assuming the cockpit is in one facing? Did you try looking at it from the top down and drawing an "X"? Is the whole thing really in one facing?

The cockpit is round. It exists in multiple facings.... how hard can this be?

Why are we assuming the cockpit is in one facing?

For the sake of this:

Shooting at the cockpit of the Serpent is still in whatever arc you are firing from.

If the cockpit is, for example, in one facing, why would it still use the arc the shot is being fired from?

Also, with a serpent, the vast majority (about 90% or more) is in the front facing; it definately peaks in height inside the front facing, and it's only the peak you'll be able to see if the side is completely invisible to you. Although it depends on where you draw the 'x', I went for the middle of the tank, which is quite hard to describe the exact location of.

SlaveToDorkness wrote:The cockpit is round. It exists in multiple facings.... how hard can this be?

The cockpit is not round, if anything it's oval. Apart from that, your comment adds nothing to this discussion; do you have anything constructive to say about it?

Can you see the cockpit from the front?
Can you see the cockpit from the side?
Can you see the cockpit from the rear?

SlaveToDorkness wrote:Can you see the cockpit from the front?
Can you see the cockpit from the side?
Can you see the cockpit from the rear?

The part of the WS cockpit visible from the side when the side facing as planned out is wholly invisible, is present on the front arc of the vehicle, and the rule states that if you can see another facing instead, then you get a 3+ cover against the shot taken against it; unfortunately the rule neglects to include what constitutes another facing in terms of things you can see from one area that are actually part of another.

Avatar 720 wrote:Also, with a serpent, the vast majority (about 90% or more) is in the front facing; it definately peaks in height inside the front facing, and it's only the peak you'll be able to see if the side is completely invisible to you. Although it depends on where you draw the 'x', I went for the middle of the tank, which is quite hard to describe the exact location of.

90% of the model can't be in the front facing... Draw an X with the center of the X in the center of the model. Those four quarters are the four facings. You could be looking at the right side and see part of the front facing,(because the model is 3d and some pieces stick up more than others) but the cover save only comes in to play if you cannot see the right facing.

I think you missed all the various references to the 'cockpit' in the post you quoted part of.

Please do not treat me like a simpleton, I know how to check facings and I certainly know it's impossible for 90% of a model to be a single facing.

EDIT: Actually, just forget it. I can see this is going to end badly and I can't be bothered with cleaning up after it.

Thanks to the people who helped.

I didn't miss the reference - I just don't see it being relevant.

Avatar 720 wrote:Actually, just forget it.

Thread locked as per OP request