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If you win the dice toss originally to see who is allowed to deploy first, can you choose to deploy second but move turn 1 first?

Generally, no - unless you steal the initiative.

Most scenarios specify that the same person does both first.

kirsanth wrote:Generally, no - unless you steal the initiative.

Most scenarios specify that the same person does both first.

Thanks, is this covered anywhere in the rules?

Yes, in the rules for the scenarios, as you'd expect.

The player who chooses sides deploys and will usually go first; the opponent can try to seize the initiative, usually on a 6+, in which case THEY go first

Pages 92-93, main rules.

Generally, if playing a non-standard mission it is listed in the Deployment details.

Thanks everyone! I have another question that maybe you all could help me with. I'm looking at taking Runes of Warding on my Farseer for the game tonight and I was reading over the rules. It doesn't say whether or not the power actually happens, just that they fail perils of the warp if they get 12+ with 3D6. I imagine that the power would NOT happen along with allocating a wound if they fail Runes of Warding test, is this correct?

RoW just modifies the normal Psychic test - so yes, if they fail that test the power does not go off.

For the power to succeed the psychic test must succeed on the psychic test - now taken on 3d6.
The fact that perils occurs on 12+ is because the normal rules say on a 12 (or a 2 which is now impossible to roll). Since 3d6 can pass 12, it is covering a technicality.

kirsanth wrote:For the power to succeed the psychic test must succeed on the psychic test - now taken on 3d6.
The fact that perils occurs on 12+ is because the normal rules say on a 12 (or a 2 which is now impossible to roll). Since 3d6 can pass 12, it is covering a technicality.

Perils actually says that it happens on double 1s or 6s. It doesn't say it happens on a 2 or 12.

So, against RoWarding, you suffer perils if:
A) You roll 2 "1"s and anything else
B) You roll 2 "6"s and anything else
C) You roll greater than 12

Most players assume you can only suffer a single Perils attack per Psychic test. The rules don't actually limit the number of Perils anywhere, so you would suffer 2 Perils if you rolled 6, 6, anything.

Fair enough, and better said.

As someone else stated previously:

Grakmar is technically correct.

Which is the best kind of correct!

I disagree Grakmar, normally you take PotW on double 1's or 6's. RoWard changes it to 12+ on 3d6. SitW specifically states 3d6 with PotW on any double 1's or 6's. 2 abilities that require a 3d6 roll, but with two different results for forcing PotW.

Grakmar wrote:

kirsanth wrote:For the power to succeed the psychic test must succeed on the psychic test - now taken on 3d6.
The fact that perils occurs on 12+ is because the normal rules say on a 12 (or a 2 which is now impossible to roll). Since 3d6 can pass 12, it is covering a technicality.

Perils actually says that it happens on double 1s or 6s. It doesn't say it happens on a 2 or 12.

So, against RoWarding, you suffer perils if:
A) You roll 2 "1"s and anything else
B) You roll 2 "6"s and anything else
C) You roll greater than 12

Most players assume you can only suffer a single Perils attack per Psychic test. The rules don't actually limit the number of Perils anywhere, so you would suffer 2 Perils if you rolled 6, 6, anything.

So, if you roll trip-six do you suffer 4 perils?

Assume die A, B & C, all come up six. So you have a double six with AB, AC, BC, and then also greater than 12.

Shrike325 wrote:

Grakmar wrote:

kirsanth wrote:For the power to succeed the psychic test must succeed on the psychic test - now taken on 3d6.
The fact that perils occurs on 12+ is because the normal rules say on a 12 (or a 2 which is now impossible to roll). Since 3d6 can pass 12, it is covering a technicality.

Perils actually says that it happens on double 1s or 6s. It doesn't say it happens on a 2 or 12.

So, against RoWarding, you suffer perils if:
A) You roll 2 "1"s and anything else
B) You roll 2 "6"s and anything else
C) You roll greater than 12

Most players assume you can only suffer a single Perils attack per Psychic test. The rules don't actually limit the number of Perils anywhere, so you would suffer 2 Perils if you rolled 6, 6, anything.

So, if you roll trip-six do you suffer 4 perils?

Assume die A, B & C, all come up six. So you have a double six with AB, AC, BC, and then also greater than 12.

I don't see it stacking like that. You have ONE PAIR of double 6's, and than the last one gets added on. The pairs cannot share a dice, and as such the max would be 2 wounds.

Shrike325 wrote:

Grakmar wrote:

kirsanth wrote:For the power to succeed the psychic test must succeed on the psychic test - now taken on 3d6.
The fact that perils occurs on 12+ is because the normal rules say on a 12 (or a 2 which is now impossible to roll). Since 3d6 can pass 12, it is covering a technicality.

Perils actually says that it happens on double 1s or 6s. It doesn't say it happens on a 2 or 12.

So, against RoWarding, you suffer perils if:
A) You roll 2 "1"s and anything else
B) You roll 2 "6"s and anything else
C) You roll greater than 12

Most players assume you can only suffer a single Perils attack per Psychic test. The rules don't actually limit the number of Perils anywhere, so you would suffer 2 Perils if you rolled 6, 6, anything.

So, if you roll trip-six do you suffer 4 perils?

Assume die A, B & C, all come up six. So you have a double six with AB, AC, BC, and then also greater than 12.

No, you suffer perils if you roll a pair, not a perils per pair.

You suffer A perils and A perils only

Yeah, perils is a result of failing a test, and you can only fail a test once per attempt. You can't fail the same test four times without taking it four times.

EDIT: spelling

So this cannot inflict two wounds like originally said?

It is as Grakmar stated, most everyone agrees 1.

There are ways to read it as two, but that gets rather strange too fast and I have never seen it played that way.

kirsanth wrote:It is as Grakmar stated, most everyone agrees 1.

There are ways to read it as two, but that gets rather strange too fast and I have never seen it played that way.

Wasn't Grakmar the one that originally said 2? '>.>

I dunno who originally said it, but this is as clear as I can make it:

If you take 1 psychic test and fail, you only take 1 wound. You can never take more wounds than the number of psychic tests, no matter how bad you fail the test. (unless some ability specifically modifies this, but I cannot think of any abilities that would)

Example: My psyker tries to use a power, and his Ld is 10 I roll 3D6 and get 6, 6 & 6. I have failed as hard as possible. My psyker will only take a single wound to the Perils of the Warp.

However, had you rolled 1,1,1 you would NOT have suffered PotW. If you were up against 'Nids on the other hand, you would suffer one.

1,1,1 you DO suffer Perils. You suffer Perils on any double 1 or double 6. This is independent of whether the power works, BTW. If you roll double 1 the power still goes off but you eat Perils.

Runes of Warding make the model take their normal test on 3d6, AND make it so that on a total roll of 12 or more they also eat Perils. That's in addition to normally incurring it on any double 1 or double 6.

An Eldar Farseer with Runes of Witnessing (roll 3d6 drop the highest) actually slightly increases his odds of Perils too; because he substantially increases the chances of getting two 1s on those three dice, since he is forced to drop the highest. This resulted in my killing my own Farseer a bunch of times back in 4th ed, when it was a S6 hit instead of a simple wound, so it caused Instant Death on non-Eldrad Farseers if they failed their Ghosthelm roll and failed their Invulnerable save. Memorably, this happened to me on turn one of ALL THREE games in one local League finals.

My question then is why for SitW does it specifically state that you take PotW for "any roll of double 1's or 6's"? My understanding is that for RoWa you only suffer perils on 12+.

Because for SitW you're rolling 3d6. I believe they say that on "any" double 1 or double 6 you suffer Perils to make clear that it doesn't have to be all three dice (triples); but that any two will do.

Right, SitW and RoW both require rolling 3d6, yet they both specify different things causing PotW. One is any double 1's or 6's and the other is 12+

Runes of Warding say that rolls of 12+ cause Perils, but they don't say ONLY rolls of 12+ cause Perils. Nothing in the phrasing states or implies that normal Perils are negated.

After re-reading the FAQ for Eldar (concerning RoWarding vs RoWitnessing) I must concede defeat, and tip my hat to you sir.

No defeat, sir. We're both trying to increase our understanding/command of the rules, so we both win. (You made me double-check the codices for the phrasing on both).

dabupp wrote:

kirsanth wrote:It is as Grakmar stated, most everyone agrees 1.

There are ways to read it as two, but that gets rather strange too fast and I have never seen it played that way.

Wasn't Grakmar the one that originally said 2?

I did. However, I also pointed out that almost everyone assumes you can only ever suffer 1 Perils. The rules are a little vague on this, but I stand by that a strict reading of the rules results in the possibility of 2 Perils.

However, if my opponent disagreed with this, I wouldn't argue at all. I think the intent is for a single perils.

The only place I've seen it it state you don't take more than 1 PotW is the Eldar FAQ on Runes vs Runes. It specifically states that if the result of the 3d6 is 12+, you don't suffer another PoTW if you've already suffered one for double 6's.