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Hey gang, ironically i have come asking for some help or at the very least a recounting of past events from my peer group here of other ork players. If you have suffered to this squad though feel free to share how it did...

So... I might be a bit embarrased but i've very rarely ever used nobs and frankly i haven't like them cause of wound allocation and a sense of cheese. That being said, i do want to understand the optimum build so if a time where orky honor or emotional beatdowns need to commence I know how to deck them out for best performance. So I am asking people to post the best sqauds they can cause to me it felt like I was always spending way too much one them so i want to sharpen this edge of my army a bit

So what do ya say boyz? Can we teach dis old mek some new tricks?!

My list includes this unit:

10 Models
1 Painboy: FNP is *huge*
10 Cyborks: I choose Cyborks of Heavy Armor because i already have FNP, and a power weapon cuts like fire. The Cyborks give me a fighting change against Demolisher Cannons, Thunder Hammers, and massive PW. Still, I try to avoid PW when I can.
1 Waaagh! Banner: WS5 is *awesome.* Hit most targets on 3s, and other models with WS5 don't hit me on 3s.
1 Boss Pole: As a backup in case my Warboss gets sniped in melee combat (Stupid IC frailty)
1 TL Shoota: For wound allocation
1 Kombi-Rocket: For wound allocation
2 Kombi-Skorcha: For wound allocation
1 Big Choppa: For wound allocation.
2 Power Klaw: For mopping up after everything else happens
Total 375

I usually throw them in a trukk with warboss and a boarding plank. Plank lets the boss badass without exposing himself. Warboss allows the nobz to be scoring, which is awesome, since they're very durable.

Edit: Fixed formatting.

I have two squads of ten nobz, one Power Klaw squad with Waaagh! Banner and other Big choppa squad with Waaagh! Banner and Painboy and a warboss each to accompany them something kinda like this:

Warboss - Power Klaw, Twin linked shoota, Cybork body, Eavy' armour, Bosspole
Warboss - Big Choppa, Twin linked shoota, Cybork body, Eavy' armour, Bosspole
10 Nobz - 10 Power Klaws, Waaagh! Banner, Eavy' armour
10 Nobz - 9 Big choppas, Waaagh! Banner, Eavy' armour, Cybork bodies, Painboy with grot orderly

In pretty much any game I always run 10 nobz in either a trukk or a battlewagon along with my Warboss and (if in the battle wagon) my KFF mek.
360pts, Composition is:

1 klaw
1 klaw with Waaagh Banner (wound allocation between klaws, and banner dies last if I can help it, so may as well have a klaw)
Big Choppa
Big Choppa Bosspole (the same reason Krall mentioned, and a bit more wound allocation)
Painboy (a must)
Combi-Skorcha (just for fun)
4 standard nobz (to soak up wounds, and 5 S5 attacks each is not bad at all)
everyone has the 4+ armor save (except the painboy)

I chose the armor beacuse it is effective against almost everything in shooting and combat. I don't like taking mega armor because I often rely on getting the full movement distance to make it into combat after I get dumped out of my ride. I also dont take the Cybork in normal games because I have never really needed it, and it is an extra 5pts each when I already have a 4+ save and FNP. Although, what with grey knights everywhere that may have to change.

As for the squad itself, It usually smashes almost everything and makes up for it's large cost pretty quickly, (I once rolled up something like forty guardsmen and a tank and a half in one glorious assault phase). The only things it fails against are: carnifex squads (though that may have just been from my bad rolling and his amazing rolling), assault termies, grey knights... anything with a lot of power weapon attacks or ID really. But thats what boyz are for!

Yikes, I cant beleive so many of you (looks like ALL) are saying to take 10 nobs. You only do that in big ass games where the points permit. In under 1500 you never need more then 6 nobs, unless points permit Ill add 1 pushing it to 7. 10 is simply an over kill. AND adding a warboss to a nobs unit is even more overkill AND putting all your eggs into 1 basket. Warbosses are great at kicking heads in, in CC. Nobs are great at kicking heads in CC, there for sticking both together just doesnt make sense.


The trick with wound allocation is to make sure everything in the unit has something different from the rest, even if its an ammo runt. As long as they all have a different set of wargear they all count as a single wound group. When doing this, it allows you to effectively double their staying power. If you have 6 nobs with the same gear, you only have to fail 2 wounds and you have a dead nob. Making them all having differing gear, youll have to fail 7 wounds to lose 1 nob. And keep in mind, most Nob setups, youll have either a 5++ and a 4+FNP or a 4++/4+FNP depending on how you like to equip them. (personally I almost always leave off the eavy armor but thats me)

Also, make sure if its a small unit of Nobs (say 6 or 7) never take more then 3 PK on them, I normally run 2 in that small a unit. Its plenty of STR8 killy and the rest is bigchoppas and a painboy. Pretty damn deadly.

KingCracker wrote:Yikes, I cant beleive so many of you (looks like ALL) are saying to take 10 nobs. You only do that in big ass games where the points permit. In under 1500 you never need more then 6 nobs, unless points permit Ill add 1 pushing it to 7. 10 is simply an over kill.

Actually yes, I agree. In games of 1500pts or less 10 nobz are not really worth the point sink, and six nobz will usually do the trick anyway. In games like that the extra points are really required elsewhere in your list, and your opponent will not have as many power squads. However, The unit I described is my standard setup for 1850 pointers (the size I usually play), and I have found that, at least in my games, the 10 nobz are often a necessity.

So based off this, in a 1500, 2000, and 2.5 and beyond what would you guys suggest for a powerful guiding unit of nobs to be a bad ass team? cause I have learned a thing or two reading these. here is what i got for a basic 1500 pts

Total Cost: 250

Elite: Nobz (6#, 250 pts)
1 Nobz, 0 pts
1 Painboy, 55 pts = (base cost 50 + Cybork Body 5)
1 Nobz, 30 pts = (base cost 20 + Cybork Body 5 + Big Choppa 5)
1 Nobz, 45 pts = (base cost 20 + Cybork Body 5 + Waaagh! Banner 15 + Big Choppa 5)
1 Nobz, 35 pts = (base cost 20 + Bosspole 5 + Cybork Body 5 + Big Choppa 5)
1 Nobz, 35 pts = (base cost 20 + Cybork Body 5 + Big Choppa 5 + Shoota/Skorcha Kombi-weapon 5)
1 Nobz, 50 pts = (base cost 20 + Cybork Body 5 + Power Klaw 25)

Figured the Powerklaw to give it options in tank hunting, Cybork to be useful in any real situation but I did really debate on eavy armor naturally.... what do you guys think?

Looks pretty good, but I'd add another PK to smash marines and over things with a good armor save. The big choppas already. Myself, I even add a third klaw nobz(for a total of 7 nobz), as I often need them to take down things with good armor saves, like fortuned eldar, fnp marines or catalysted tyranids.

Big Mek Wurrzog wrote:

Total Cost: 250

Elite: Nobz (6#, 250 pts)
1 Nobz, 0 pts
1 Painboy, 55 pts = (base cost 50 + Cybork Body 5)
1 Nobz, 30 pts = (base cost 20 + Cybork Body 5 + Big Choppa 5)
1 Nobz, 45 pts = (base cost 20 + Cybork Body 5 + Waaagh! Banner 15 + Big Choppa 5)
1 Nobz, 35 pts = (base cost 20 + Bosspole 5 + Cybork Body 5 + Big Choppa 5)
1 Nobz, 35 pts = (base cost 20 + Cybork Body 5 + Big Choppa 5 + Shoota/Skorcha Kombi-weapon 5)
1 Nobz, 50 pts = (base cost 20 + Cybork Body 5 + Power Klaw 25)

My problem with this squad is its so damn close to the cost of a similar number of Meganobz instead... i almost would think they are a better option were it not for fnp and invulnerable... even then it's close. What do you guys think, do Nobz or Mega Nobz pull more combat awareness from the enemy?

Nobz, certainly draw more attention. They are nobz, and rightfully become bullet magnets. MANz I find usually dont, at the expense of my opponent of course. They think, of 3-4 MANz isnt scary, Ill focus on that mob over there. But then those MANz pop out of a trukk on turn 3-4, and absolutely hulk smash their HQ or other badass unit. MANz are a scary force when used well

At one point I ran 8 nobs and a warboss in my 1850 list but lately I have cut them down to:

Warboss PK, BP
Nob 1 regular
Nob 2 combi-burna
Nob 3 Waaagh Banner
Nob 4 PK
Nob 5 PK, BP
Painboy
(All on bikes with cybork bodies)

I run this with 2 Wagons, KFF, 2 squads of lootas, a foot slogging squad, and some cans. You will see several people who say never run a list like this because of the mixture of fast and slow units but I make it work (large tournaments: 8th out of 50+, 2nd out of 30+, several top 3 finishes in 1 day tournaments)

I think that more important than what you kit them out with is how you play with them. I always run them up a flank to my opponents weakest side and attack where they won't get bogged down and have to fight hammer units. I used to run them up the middle but would end up assaulted by multiple units or win a fight with a hammer unit but be too depleted to do much good afterwards. The best thing about them is that they attract so much fire that my mobs can get in close.

MANz lack three important upgrades: Cybork, Boss Pole, Waagh! Banner. No Cybork means that Lances and and Meltas don't even have to think about shooting them, every hit will kill a MAN, and that they are pretty much helpless against any kind of power fist, force weapon or monstrous creatures. No Boss Pole means that tank shocks and even minor losses in battle will run them off the table half the time. No W!-Banner means that they get hit much more often by close combat experts (usually wielding those weapons which they lack cybork against), and that they generate much less hits against units with mediocre combat ability, like gaunts, dire avengers, imperial blobs or boyz.

MiscDebris: A great player can still place well with a sub-par list. Those Gorkamorka-style lists like you are running can made work with some careful playing, but are always inferior to a fully synergetic list. As long as you aren't winning the tournaments, there is room to improve, isn't there?

Otherwise, my nob bikers are pretty much the same as yours, minus one and banner goes on the second PK-nob. I usually put my battlewagons right in front of the biggest threat to my nobz (vindicators, las cannons, long fangs etc) and have them run up the edge as far from my wagons as possible.

Jidmah and King cracker are on the money here (both post alot of good ork advice [side note- what the hell happened to Adashofpepper? I miss that guy...]). The only thing I would echo is not going overboard on bodies and klaws. 2-3 are enough to lay down alot of krump (8-12 PK attacks are alot!), and you don't want the cost of the squad eating away at the number of boyz on the field.

Still just probing here... but what about running Mad Dok Grotsnik with meganobz vs basic nobz? I dunno part of me really is drawn to the 2+ 2 wounds though i know in ideal circumstances melta and lances will erradicate me

Jihallah wrote:Jidmah and King cracker are on the money here (both post alot of good ork advice [side note- what the hell happened to Adashofpepper? I miss that guy...]). The only thing I would echo is not going overboard on bodies and klaws. 2-3 are enough to lay down alot of krump (8-12 PK attacks are alot!), and you don't want the cost of the squad eating away at the number of boyz on the field.

My bet is he is busy painting necrons and/or smashing people with his new super secret tech
And thanks for all the praise.

Big Mek Wurrzog wrote:Still just probing here... but what about running Mad Dok Grotsnik with meganobz vs basic nobz? I dunno part of me really is drawn to the 2+ 2 wounds though i know in ideal circumstances melta and lances will erradicate me

As long as you are not running them in one unit it might work. Slow and purposeful mega-rage is pretty much asking for them being led away from the fight.

However, grotznik doesn't eliminate the other weakness of MANz, their leadership. A unit of 7 meganobz (280+ point!) can easily be found running off the board screaming because a rhino was driving at them. If you want a large mob of meganobz, add a Mega-Warboss to babysit them. His bosspole and ld9 will keep them in line, while he can take some S8 shots on his own cybork and T5. While the entire unit is inferior to nob bikers due to the missing Waagh! banner, cybork and diversification, it's the best way to field large units of MANz.

The best way to field MANz though, is putting three in a trukk, and use them as missile: Drive the trukk in the midst of the enemy and watch them destroy something. While melta and lances will still pulverize them, you are now losing a unit of no more than 130 points, rather than a core piece of your army. Think of them as dead 'ard trukkboyz.

Jidmah wrote:

Jihallah wrote:Jidmah and King cracker are on the money here (both post alot of good ork advice [side note- what the hell happened to Adashofpepper? I miss that guy...]). The only thing I would echo is not going overboard on bodies and klaws. 2-3 are enough to lay down alot of krump (8-12 PK attacks are alot!), and you don't want the cost of the squad eating away at the number of boyz on the field.

My bet is he is busy painting necrons and/or smashing people with his new super secret tech
And thanks for all the praise.

Big Mek Wurrzog wrote:Still just probing here... but what about running Mad Dok Grotsnik with meganobz vs basic nobz? I dunno part of me really is drawn to the 2+ 2 wounds though i know in ideal circumstances melta and lances will erradicate me

As long as you are not running them in one unit it might work. Slow and purposeful mega-rage is pretty much asking for them being led away from the fight.

However, grotznik doesn't eliminate the other weakness of MANz, their leadership. A unit of 7 meganobz (280+ point!) can easily be found running off the board screaming because a rhino was driving at them. If you want a large mob of meganobz, add a Mega-Warboss to babysit them. His bosspole and ld9 will keep them in line, while he can take some S8 shots on his own cybork and T5. While the entire unit is inferior to nob bikers due to the missing Waagh! banner, cybork and diversification, it's the best way to field large units of MANz.

The best way to field MANz though, is putting three in a trukk, and use them as missile: Drive the trukk in the midst of the enemy and watch them destroy something. While melta and lances will still pulverize them, you are now losing a unit of no more than 130 points, rather than a core piece of your army. Think of them as dead 'ard trukkboyz.

Thats what I was getting at in my earlier post. The only thing MANz have over Nobz, is they are the cheapest way to get a PK, and thats pretty much it. But stick them in a Trukk, and hold it in reserve, now thats a fun way to ram them down your opponents throat. Ive done it many times, and unless I get unlucky (which you cant really count luck in plans/strategies) they have always performed nicely.

Adding the Dok does make up for some of their weaknesses, but Jidmah is right, the LD is still a problem. Ive heard of the Dok being awesome in a snikrot/kommando unit, and for obvious reasons. Ive personally always wanted to stick the Dok in an Ard boyz unit x30 with all cyborks Its crazy pricey, but cmon, 4+/5++/4+ FNP on 29 boyz + 1pk/BP nob AND they are raged?!? Yes, now that sounds like fun. Maybe cut that nubmer down to 20 so they could all fit in a BW for that extra killy assault range


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, Dash doesnt really roll Orks anymore. Yes, hes KNOWN for playing Orks, but he seems to be thatguy, that after he proves his point with something, he will move on to make another point, with another army.

I was more referring to him posting, in general. I used to laugh myself silly when idiots argued with him, and he posted really really good advice in general.
I think reserving the manz trukk is a fairly good use of it, as unless you are unlucky, you're probably going to get it turn 2 or 3. A trukk doesn't take long to cross the board, and if anyone is unsure of the damage 3 MANz can do... just give it a whirl. I think the only thing that will survive is a GD (my friend tried to MANz missile my bloodthirster with unholy might (S8)... yeah that didn't work out.) or a speeding land raider

I'll have to try em out, like I said in the past i trust my boys way too much ... which leads to problems against armies like the nids or space wolves... i think having 6-7 nobs with basic equipment might be the best way as well.

Dont feel bad Wurrzog, I still have that problem. I LOVE Ork boyz, and tend to forget sometimes that they really do have weaknesses I think I take that whole "Throw more boyz at it" to literally sometimes. Oh well it makes for some rather funny moments on my part

I do that with may warboss. Whenever I encounter a model which is really good in close combat for the first time, I throw my warboss at it. While nowhere near a good tactical decision, smashing a Soulgrinder, Draigo, Bjorn or Leilith has single-handedly won me one or the other game.

Yea Warbosses (even vanilla ones, I use them FAR more then Thraka) are surprisingly strong. Ive hulk smashed many a tough guy unit with mine

Yeah, I meant the regular one. My Thrakka killed 1500 points of necrons, smashed a chaos rhino, shot Taleon off a roof and then beat a bunch of plague marines to paste during his very first game. Pretty much heralded what was to come in future games. But you kind of expect that from him.

"Ooh, shiny. Let's see how tough that thing is. Waaagh!" with a regular warboss is much more fun though

Here's a Grotsnik/ MAnz Missle lists I am planning on running soon as I get em modeled. This is the same one I was working on the other day, just some tweaks and tunes. Manz with Cybork have a good ROI. 5 points for a 33% invul save ona two wound model is a great buy.

Dok Grotsnik 160
20 Shoota Boyz nob/bp/pk/2BShootas 170
28 Boyz Nob/BP/PK 208 (Dok goes here giving boyz FNP for the slog.)
10 Grots + RH 40
5 Manz Scorcha/Rokkit/2Stock 5 Cybork+Trukk+ram+RPJ+Riggers 285
3 Rokkit Buggies TLR 135
Total 998

basically boyz + Dok sprint, shootas camp
grots+ RH will actually be slogging with the Boyz providing some cover and ensuring the boyz get the charge.

Think I should only put 4 Manz in the Trukk? If so what else should I spend on?


Could do ti this way instead:

Dok Grotsnik 160
20 Shoota Boyz nob/bp/pk/2BShootas 170
23 Boyz Cyborked Nob/BP/PK/Nob Armor 298
10 Grots + RH 40
3 Manz Scorcha/Rokkit/2Stock 3Cybork+Trukk+ram+RPJ+Riggers 195
3 Rokkit Buggies TLR 135

Like the first one more. Keep in mind that with 5 MANz you need two casualties for a 25% test, with 4 only one.

Also, a larger boyz mob is harder to dodge/lead around. You could give 'eavy armor to their nob only and try to save as many 4+/FNP wounds as possible until he gets his first wound.