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Hi,

on Dakka I find it impossible to read or find news& rumours on everything related to Privateer Press. It is a custom to start at least one, better two new threads for every single new miniature or miniature preview, even if they are released on the same day (this actually happened once). Neither Warmachine nor Hordes release more miniatures per month than, say, Malifaux or Infinity (or as there are Black Library releases). Still, Privateer is the only miniature company that is a total blank for me because of their uncoordinated news management on Dakka.

Dysartes made the fine and labor intensive attempt to sort this mess out a bit, but was explicitely forbidden to continue: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/30/417031.page . I support that attempt. Only with a Warmachine and a Hordes thread is it possible to hotlink to all relevant information, even if you, e.g., missed a month of news. Until then I have no chance to know, if something has already been posted, as the search function is still not working properly. My only attempt at posting something new failed because of some other thread I have never seen. So I keep on not contributing to that topic.

Is there anybody else unhappy with how Privateer Press News & rumours are dealt with on Dakka? Is there a reason why only PP gets this treatment? Because the arguments by malfred and Manchu make absolutely no sense to me.

(a) It is not a "custom" to start more than one thread on any single PP release; to the extent that this occurs, which is not often, it is a mistake

(b) a well-meaning poster will sometimes include information about a different release in the same thread; this hardly qualifies as having more than one thread on a single release as a "custom"

(c) 20+ page "megathreads" are not necessarily more useful than single-release threads; don't confuse your personal preference with what is best for everyone

(d) after 40k- and WHFB-related news, PP releases draw the next most significant amount of posts; this is not true of releases by Infinity or Kromelch (and similar smaller companies) nor is it even true of BL or FFG 40k RPG releases; PP releases should not be treated the same way as these others because PP releases are different


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, the search function seems to work as well as it ever has. Please remember that DakkaDakka is a forum -- that is, a platform for discussion. It is not a news blog. If you have missed a month of PP news, the natural place to look would be the PP website.

I personally much prefer new releases be given their own thread, no matter which company it's with. Imagine if we had a single mega-thread for GW product that was 400 pages long and spanned from 5th Ed Tyranids and every subsequent release since then. It would be pretty terrible. Especially with companies like PP and GW who put out large amounts of varied product, simply seeing "Ongoing PP News" back near the top of rumors doesn't really tell me anything is new. Now, if the owner of those threads wants to put "PP News - 12/15 New Plastics & Troll BE" that's a bit different, but now you're relying on either mods or the original poster to keep the title updated.

To again point toward our trend with GW merchandise, a thread starts as a solid rumor or preview roundup, and as more info/product is put out then the thread gets updated. This worked for Tyranids, Grey Knights, Necrons, Tomb Kings, Dreadfleet, etc. Each had their own individual threads and that seemed to work pretty well. I completely agree with keeping things that are announced/released at the same time or even very close to each other in the same thread.

Alternatively, looking at Raging Heroes who recently put out a post regarding new sculpts. Because we had preview shots of Gluttony, the new master shots work just fine to slip in to an older thread. However, since they sometimes take a good while between posts, it's essentially thread necromancy next time they come out with something and we just attach it to the old posts that cover releases from six months ago.

Having mega-threads also tends to diminish the novelty of truly new material, and some of these smaller companies really do rely on places like Dakka as a prime source of generating interest and customers so added exposure via a new thread.

Information megaposts are difficult to navigate. Janthkin has
suggested I learn to use the Filter Thread feature, but for me that
only works when there is a single author to the news in a thread
because the feature was designed with blogs in mind. When
these megathreads pop-up, you get multiple users posting new
information, so you're left dealing with signal to noise.

For me, the megathreads have worked for things like single
game/faction rumors, as rumors are filled with noise so you go
into those threads expected them. They also work for companies
like Chapterhouse who manage their own megathreads to push
their own product. The person managing the thread has total
control over the content that gets edited into a subject line, and
small companies have every incentive to keep their own threads
clear and readable.

To me this is about managing information. If Dysartes were to
miss some updates and not update his thread, then someone posting
new information has to flag the thread for a mod to edit the subject
line. This
doesn't really help moderate the site and pulls moderators from other
important duties like managing the OT forums.

I'm only kind of kidding about that last point.

Moderating multiple threads is easier by comparison because it's a
simple "lock thread/open thread" issue. I get a flag on a post telling
me it's a dupe, I can simply go in, lock the thread and everyone is
on their way. When you flag a post to get mods to moderate a megathread,
they almost always have to become involved in the thread in order
to figure out if the moderation of editing the thread is warranted.

Another option to handling this is to deal with the threads the way
we do with releases by updating a thread every month. However, I
feel this potentially mangles information because of the reliance on
the original user for editing the subject line as I've mentioned before.

I'm usually not bad at finding news & rumours. What does it tell you that I have given up finding PP N&R on Dakka? And if I give up, how many people else will do?

The same can be said for people giving up on megathreads.

Would I be wrong in saying PP tend to release in a similar way to Infinity? By that I mean, a steady but mixed set of models a month, no big army releases all at once (or 2 wave) like GW?

I don't pay tons of attention to PP news, besides peeking at the models now and then, but if I am correct, I find PP is unsuitable for a mega-thread. What I loved about the Necron Megathread and the current Chaos and Tau one's is the consolidation of all rumors into the first post, which allows me to get straight to what I want without need of sifting through pages. This is great!

However, I feel this only works on a per-army level, with a set beginning and end to the cycle. The reason why is that that first post mega-list is still confined to one topic essentially. A company wide thread for an entity the size of PP would inherently unbalance, there is no easy way to consolidate that... 'see post 1 for Cryx, see post 2 for Khador, see post 3 for Menoth' etc etc etc etc... It won't work IMO.

Again, I am a fan of some of the Mega-threads personally, but I must agree with the other Mods in this particular case for the reasons stated above. Don't take it personally Kroot, it doesn't mean your other efforts are un-appreciated I assure you -

Kirbinator wrote:I personally much prefer new releases be given their own thread, no matter which company it's with. Imagine if we had a single mega-thread for GW product that was 400 pages long and spanned from 5th Ed Tyranids and every subsequent release since then. It would be pretty terrible.

Agree with this... PP is just too big for a single thread, just like GW is.

Megathreads also completely hinder discussion of the releases- if PP is consolidated to a single thread, then to talk about one model I have to scan through pages and pages of comments about other models to see if what I want to point out about just one of them has already been discussed.

I can see the need for consolidated threads, and personally greatly appreciate your efforts in doing so for some new releases for GW, Kroothawk. But imagine if the Necrons news was just tacked onto the SoB news from the previous month... it'd be a nightmare! The same is true for PP... at least for me, as a big fan of their releases.

You can also keep up with what is coming out all in one place, still on Dakka, in this thread from the Warmachine/Hordes section, if you want to stick to Dakka for a consolidated summary

MajorTom11 wrote:Again, I am a fan of some of the Mega-threads personally, but I must agree with the other Mods in this particular case for the reasons stated above. Don't take it personally Kroot, it doesn't mean your other efforts are un-appreciated I assure you -

Yeah, I should have highlighted this. I greatly appreciate your efforts on the first post of GW megathreads. For one thing, I think this allows people to separate "news" from "discussion." Some folks just want the news and that's fine even if that's not what our News & Rumors forum is about. The key is discussing rumors. I get a lot of modalerts to shut down your GW-megathreads because the discussion is "no longer news." Discussion, unless the game designers are participating, is almost never news. But that has no bearing on whether a thread should be locked. If moderators did that, then we'd eventually just be reading a blog (tightly-controlled content managed and provided by a small group of contributors) rather than having the chance to share opinions. I respect that some people don't want to get into the "wishlisting" (sometimes, I'm among them) and can just have a quick peek at your first post.

But all of that is premised by the fact that GW releases have a lengthy prelude of rumor-mongering and then a bevy of models and a new book are all revealed at once. So that model has very limited utility when it comes to PP. The alternative would be having someone, such as yourself or a moderator, responsible for a single thread for what could potentially be years. While we could do this, and I won't even more than touch on the vast difference between a hobby and an obligation, that assignment doesn't really fit into the discussion board model. I can also understand your point that multiple threads are harder for you to follow. But, again, this is a matter of personal preference rather than objective fact. I have been using the example of Infinity, which Tom picked up as well in his post, as the closest thing to the PP release style that we currently manage as a megathread. People like yourself really like this style but I find it extremely off-putting and, as a result, I have not followed anything happening with Infinity since that thread was posted.

Conversely, I have managed to catch every release from PP (as confirmed by the link RiTides posted) in N&R -- even despite me being fairly critical-of-to-not-interested-in their lines. (I have to say, following their releases is changing that, taken as a whole.)

If you missed a release you can always go here: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/280384.page

It's not pretty but it is comprehensive.

RiTides beat you to it, old chap.

Well it's his thread, after all, so that's OK

I was, er, double checking or something...

So, just to look at a real world example demonstrating Kroot's original point...

Privateer Press previewed three new releases yesterday - Rok, the Swamp Horror and the plastic Exemplar Errants. Posts have been made in three threads regarding them already:

- Platuan4th produced a thread covering all three new releases - he'd get a gold star, apart from using [PP] as a thread tag instead of [Privateer Press]
- Relapse posted a thread just linking to the plastic Exemplar Errants, with no tag in the title and an incorrect spelling of Privateer in the title. Naughty Relapse.
- RiTides goes one better, doing what I was told not to do - he posts about Rok in the pre-existing thread about the plastic Dire Troll kit. In his defence, this occurred at almost the same time as Platuan4th's thread, and he actually has the correct tag in the thread title. However, it is splintering the discussion regarding the new release.

So, is the Mod note quoted below actually going to be being enforced, or is it one rule for the Mods and one rule for the rest of us?

Mod Note: We will not be consolidating news into this thread. Please post new previews into their own threads with the [Privateer Press] tag in the subject line.

I have to say, I'm confused - after the fairly clear statement by a mod regarding the Consolidated thread I tried to build, that self-same mod is now doing a consolidated thread of their own?

In a discussion the book releases seemed a good way to go instead of just a god thread of both.

Dysartes, I missed your comment before, but I had posted about Rok in the plastic dire troll kit since it was just a few bits to add onto it, and was released right after. Turned out I got ninja'ed- what can you do? . It doesn't matter to me who starts a thread, as long as things get discussed!

My impression from all this, and the other mods can correct me if I'm off here, is that, as you point out above, the most appropriate way to handle Privateer Press threads is waves of releases, like GW and other large companies have.

I.e., Necrons get a thread, Chaos gets a thread, etc...

However, in Privateer Press's case, a "release" involves multiple armies at once in a book like Colossals. So, malfred's thread makes sense to me. But this isn't a Privateer Press "mega thread / one thread to rule them all", it's specifically for Colossals releases.

So, when my beloved Sons of Bragg get put out in July's wave release, which are from the book Domination and not Colossals, they'll likely get put into a thread with that month's wave of releases. It makes sense to me...

And to reiterate, it doesn't matter to me at all who starts a thread, as long as we can discuss the news!