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Now I'm no expert but CSM's only seem to have one viable competitive list with a couple of small variations on it. Now just browsing through my codex there are a lot of hard units in it that could take an awful lot of punishment, I just threw this list below together, it holds some of the usual choices people go for but some units in here seem to be neglected:

HQ
Daemon Prince, Wings, MoN, Warptime

Daemon Prince, Wings, MoN, Warptime

Greater Daemon

Greater Daemon

Elites
8x Terminator, 2 Chainfist, Reaper Autocannon, 3 Combi Melta

8x Terminator, 2 Chainfist, Reaper Autocannon, 3 Combi Melta

Troops
5x PM, 2 PG, Rhino

10x CSM, AC, 2 MG, Rhino

8x Zerker, SC, Rhino

Heavy Support
Defiler

5x Havocs, 4 ML, AC

Now that's a little over 2000 but I'm sure I'd just lose a combi-melta or two on one of the termies.

Everything seems to be about target priority with CSM's and there are a lot of hard units fielded in the list above, I would start everything on the board and use the termies to screen the rhino's until reserves are ready to come in, bomb the rhino's forward with the DP's while support fire comes from the termies as they catch up and the heavys. Then spawn the GD's.

So what do you guys think??

First your greater daemons will take the place of a Aspiring champion/ sorc which you lack, as ba as they can be they rarely get their points back as they get shot alot.

Second id drop the MoN and give MoT and id take another chaos power such as Bolt or Breath of Chaos,

i dont have dex with me Atm but id drop the PM and tailor in another squad of nillas and perhaps add to more zerkers

Termies id drop both squads to 5 drop and a chain fist and use the points else where such as giving your squad MoT increasing your inv to four instead of five

If you have remaining points (around 210) id go with a squad of 2-3 obliterators

Just my opinion

You can also only take a single Greater Daemon according to the Codex.

^^

Ah crab sticks I forgot that it's 0-1, sorry don't have the codex on me

Yeh I think I will swap out the PM's for a full squad of nilla's and the extra points from that and my illegal GD can pay for some more goodies, maybe another maxed out nilla squad again, I think nilla chaos are massively underated could you imagine running a full 6x10 totally bare except a PF combined with lash and deffy's?

Anyways, away from my daydream there:

HQ

2x DP, MoN, Wings, Warptime

Greater Daemon

Elites

7x Terminator, 2 Chainfist, Reaper Autocannon, 2 Combi Melta

7x Terminator, 2 Chainfist, Reaper Autocannon, 2 Combi Melta

Troops

10x CSM, AC, 2 MG, Rhino

10x CSM, AC, 2 MG, Rhino

8x Zerker, SC, PF, Rhino

Heavy

Defiler

5x Havoc, AC, 4 ML

I have about 50 points left, vehicle combi's? Kept most of the hard targets so there are 6 units there that will hold their own against most firepower.

Should I take IoC on the nilla's at all?

-Drop at least 1 GD
-Thin down Termi's
-Drop termi's RACs, take HFs
-Use points freed up to take another defiler and more troops.

Alright so I have the codex in front of me and it is indeed illegal to use more than GD. Using those points 2/3 of a defiler is available. Now I'm not a fan of Chaos termis even for termicide, but if they work for you take them. If you are taking them you'll also need icons, IOCG is obligatory for vanilla CSM as they're not fearless and need that ld reroll. Lastly I'd take some more troops as you have pretty much the amount I'd take in a 1000point list. Hope that helped!

Terminators are attractive....however chaos players have greater success making them a cheap suicide squad with combi weapons. 7 is such a large number and would suck up huge points to put towards better units. Where are the obliterators?????? That is one of our best units in the game, why not use them?

The conundrum of having a GreaterD is how much to you spend on the poor sap who he is going to replace? The two CSM guys? Screw 'em. They get nothin'. The SC, though ... ?

Brother-Captain Scotti wrote:8x Zerker, SC, PF, Rhino

They're going to need EA on their rhino. Also, I think it's a waste to *not* have a SC with a power wep, so I'd at least give him a toy. With Furious Charge, a PW is good on him.

Brother-Captain Scotti wrote:I have about 50 points left, vehicle combi's?

The power toy for the SC and ...

Brother-Captain Scotti wrote:Should I take IoC on the nilla's at all?

Icons, yes, get them.

The terminators are an experiment really, they seem to be a lot better than people think, sure there is a lot of plasma thrown around these days, then thats fine, my daemon princes and GD will have fun meeting you face to face. 14 termies is a lot to get rid of and if you have a really good day with the dice then I'm pretty sure you could weather an entire armies firepower (I have done it against shooty salamanders, that included 12 invulnerable passes in a row )

Left out the oblits cos I would like to do something different basically, I'm not overly fussed about not having the usual fire power and being very competitive.

Yeh I'd rather not get rid of the SC he'll try and stay.

The SC does have a toy, I gave him a PF

Furious Charge just changes the PF from a 8 to a 9... Init 1 is still Init 1, so I agree the PW is better.

I would start everything on the board and use the termies to screen the rhino's until reserves are ready to come in

Infantry do not give vehicles cover saves, so I see no real point to having all of those Terminators much less how they can 'screen' the Rhinos. They should either be in a Land Raider or DSing in.

Drop the AC in the Havoc squad, as he has no point. I personally would have 4x ACs myself, but the MLs can work fine.

Defilers and things like that should be taken in pairs (like your DPs), take two or none.

The crippling problem with Chaos, specially vanilla is the morale problems. They do not have ATSKNF and can run after 25% die (so 2 Terminators) and then you watch 300pts run off the table.
Now your forced to take units that can't take Morale checks (Fearless or Vehicles) and half of them are...FUBARed (like the Dread, Spawn, Posessed, Ect).

This is why you see the lists you do. Mech is killing Lash because Chaos don't have anything besides the Predator that is consistant at popping transports at range... Oblits and Havocs run, Vindy and Defiler are scatter dice (besides the AC on the Defiler) and the Land Raider is super expensive and doesn't have PotMS to split it's fire.

Your honestly better off running as many 5 man PM squads with dual Plasma in Rhinos with a Combi-Melta on it that you can squeeze on your list, 2 DPs, and with 3 Preds with LC Sponsons. If you have extra points, look at Champs with Fists and a Havoc Launcher on a home objective camper Rhino.

Sad but true...

ForAnAngel wrote:Terminators are attractive....however chaos players have greater success making them a cheap suicide squad with combi weapons. 7 is such a large number and would suck up huge points to put towards better units. Where are the obliterators?????? That is one of our best units in the game, why not use them?

Because maybe not everyone wants to use them???

I personally don't enjoy using them...

BlkTom wrote:Furious Charge just changes the PF from a 8 to a 9... Init 1 is still Init 1, so I agree the PW is better.

I would start everything on the board and use the termies to screen the rhino's until reserves are ready to come in

Infantry do not give vehicles cover saves, so I see no real point to having all of those Terminators much less how they can 'screen' the Rhinos. They should either be in a Land Raider or DSing in.

Drop the AC in the Havoc squad, as he has no point. I personally would have 4x ACs myself, but the MLs can work fine.

Defilers and things like that should be taken in pairs (like your DPs), take two or none.

The crippling problem with Chaos, specially vanilla is the morale problems. They do not have ATSKNF and can run after 25% die (so 2 Terminators) and then you watch 300pts run off the table.
Now your forced to take units that can't take Morale checks (Fearless or Vehicles) and half of them are...FUBARed (like the Dread, Spawn, Posessed, Ect).

This is why you see the lists you do. Mech is killing Lash because Chaos don't have anything besides the Predator that is consistant at popping transports at range... Oblits and Havocs run, Vindy and Defiler are scatter dice (besides the AC on the Defiler) and the Land Raider is super expensive and doesn't have PotMS to split it's fire.

Your honestly better off running as many 5 man PM squads with dual Plasma in Rhinos with a Combi-Melta on it that you can squeeze on your list, 2 DPs, and with 3 Preds with LC Sponsons. If you have extra points, look at Champs with Fists and a Havoc Launcher on a home objective camper Rhino.

Sad but true...

Yeah I see your point but I never said it was competitive, I just don't want to list the same old boring ass list that everyone uses....

The terminators don't have to be for screening, you want them all breathing down your neck at close range? You gotta shoot them with something? Just as long as it takes away from the shooting directed at the DP's and troops.

The morale is a pain though.....


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Pluxtheduck wrote:

ForAnAngel wrote:Terminators are attractive....however chaos players have greater success making them a cheap suicide squad with combi weapons. 7 is such a large number and would suck up huge points to put towards better units. Where are the obliterators?????? That is one of our best units in the game, why not use them?

Because maybe not everyone wants to use them???

I personally don't enjoy using them...

QFT