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I really like the Tachyon Arrow with its infinite range S10 AP1 shot. I figure there's got to be some way to use it in an effective manner.
The cheapest one you can get is on an otherwise naked overlord for 120 pts and you max out at two per army.
You could never base a list around tachyon arrows but I think there must be a list that could maximize their effectiveness as a side goal.

The three units that have access to a Tachyon Arrow are Overlords, Destroyer lords and Anrakyr. The only two ways you can help the arrow hit as far as I can see is either using a Triarch Stalker's Targeting Relay or attaching a Chronometron Cryptek. I think the Chrono-Tek is the better choice since if you do make your Arrow shot 4+ hit roll you can still use your Chrono re-roll to re-roll your pen roll or damage table roll or re-roll a flubbed wound roll if you're going anti-infantry or MC.

Based on that I'd guess you'd want either double-overlord or overlord/Anrakyr each with Eternity Courts.

Anyone got an idea for an effective list (1500-2000) that also maximizes the Tachyon Arrows?

No... not really.

Its too expensive when you consider for 5 more points you get a destructo cryptek who can be put in a squad with a chrono tek who will allow rerolls (or simply just take all 5 as blasty since the reroll will not always see use). A squad of them run you less than 200 points and is a devastator squad worth writing home about.

If you do want to use them then you will probably want to take what you alluded to in a list. There are just better ways to go about tank destruction than one shot weapons twice as expensive as a tac marine.

edit- spelling

Are eldritch lances really that effective against tanks? I know they're cost effective but they don't have the "lance rule" so you're only glancing a land raider on a 6.

I think the only way to make the Arrow effective, would have been to halve it's points cost.

It's just too expensive. You can do so many things with that 60 points. The only time I'd use one is with Anrayker, because it's free.

One way I know is to use Anankyr's T. Arrow, based on a Catacomb Command Barge. Fly over a vehicle and possibly destroy it with S7 2D6 Sweep Attacks, disembark and use Mind in the Machine to control the second vehicle to destroy the third, then use his Tachyon on the second. Hard to pull off, but the results speak for themselves.

They wont kill your land raiders, the half dozen or so other super nice options in your list should do that. They will smash non armor 14 vehicles pretty easy though. If you see too much heavy meta like that then scarabs, warscythes, doomsday arks/doom scythes and assorted other silliness will account for them.

I'm gonna tack a question on to this thread since it was mention earlier. Is the eldritch lance, a lance weapon I hear some people are playing it like an eldar weapon making vehicles av 12.

Unless it gets errata'd no. It doesn't have the "lance" ability on its profile so it doesn't get the lance rule

Fists of the emperor wrote:I'm gonna tack a question on to this thread since it was mention earlier. Is the eldritch lance, a lance weapon I hear some people are playing it like an eldar weapon making vehicles av 12.

Those people are cheating.

Yeah, it doesnt feature the lance characteristic, the destro tek is good enough without it

So I was bored and did the math hammer. Now in some ways this is flawed because all I am measuring the the chance to destroy a vehicle and comparing it to the points of my shot.

So just a tach arrow, with no linking from stalker or re-roll tech.

Armor - Points of vehicle
AV 10 - 90
AV 11 - 102
AV 12 - 125
AV 13 - 162
AV 14 - 231

Open Topped
AV 10 - 68
AV 11 - 74
AV 12 - 90
AV 13 - 116
AV 14 - 162

So the targets are pretty limited, of course if a weapon destroyed (or immobilized) is almost as good. Then these numbers are reduced.

So with Crypek (note I add the full points of the cryptek to be conservative so these are compared to 70 points)

AV 10 - 115
AV 11 - 129
AV 12 - 141
AV 13 - 172
AV 14 - 227

If your just taking the arrow into consideration (so 30 pts)

AV 10 - 50
AV 11 - 56
AV 12 - 62
AV 13 - 74
AV 14 - 98

Too tired to do open topped for these two. But basically it can be point efficient in certain circumstances. Mainly when you can get a side shot on a vehicle, so probably want him on a barge (not a bad thing). That, or blasting landraiders full of terms.

tiekwando wrote:So I was bored and did the math hammer. Now in some ways this is flawed because all I am measuring the the chance to destroy a vehicle and comparing it to the points of my shot.

Could you explain how this works? I'm familiar with the "shots per dead marine" mathhammer but I don't understand this calculation.

Thanks

If I follow...
66% chance to hit.
33% chance to pen
50% chance of pen to kill
16% chance to glance
16% chance to glance kill.

Means .111 expected pen kills and .0185 glance kills, for a total expected kill of .13 vehicles of AV14. This means you need ~8 tach arrows to kill a land raider, which cost 240. Seeing as the Land Raider is 240 at the bare minimum, this means that the tach arrow will make its points back so long as the land raider does not have cover.

In explaining that, when you look at the chart that was done for us, basicly if the vehicle costs less than the points indicated, then the tach arrow is worth it.

Thus, when killing Ravagers, Landraiders, storm ravens, ect, the arrow is great for the cost.

That said, this assumes you are taking characters that have the option to buy tach arrows. If you are buying the character ONLY for the tach arrow, it is not worth it. However, because overlords and destroyer lords (and Anyrakyer) are all good necron HQs without considering the Tach arrow, this is not an issue.

The chrono tech reroll can be used to hit, pen, or on the damage result. It is fully worth the points if squaded with a chrono tech, the only real downside I see is the overlord can not be squaded and in a command barge at the same time.

Arrow + nightfighting=fail. The arrow will very overpriced if you nerf your own range with night fighting.

Tiekwando posted the value to benefit ratio of the chrono cryptek already, and it shows that the chrono upgrade only really helps you versus stormravens and land raiders, as the cost becomes prohibitive.

Besides the reroll, does a chrono cryptek bring anything else to the table worthwhile?

Devian has it correct, except that i believe he mistyped and the vehicle should cost equal to or more points to what i have listed.

Its essentially a cost/benefit analysis to show when shooting the tach arrow will, on average, make its points back.

So I see the chrono cryptek as being most useful with arankyr (however its spelled) as I believe you can also re-roll the tank takeover roll. Otherwise I see it as a way to have a re-rollable 3++ or 2+ save (depending on lords/crypteks wargear),

Still the Chrono cryptek could be really handy against some armies where you NEED to stop that transport, because doing so will make their 500 points deathstar walk across the board.

The chrono makes a larger difference going up against av 11/12 than when trying to take out av14. Prime targets would be a vendetta, manticore, storm raven, psyfleman dread, or key transport.

2000 point concept list

I'm torn between Anrakyr and a Custom Overlord here since I'm trying to build a veiling deathstar. There may also be a better cryptek choice for court 2.
Are you allowed to have mixed harbinger courts or not? I thought the current reading was all the Teks in a court had to be the same harbinger type.

HQ (520)
Nemesor Zahndrekh
Royal Court [1]

Vargard Obyron

Overlord?
Royal Court [2]
Mindshackle scarabs
Tachyon Arrow
Res Orb
Warscythe
Anrakyr? (-10)

Troops (445)
7x Immortals? (Pyrrhian Eternals)
Telsa Carbines
Destructo-Tek [ Court 2]
(Attach Zahndrekh)

7x Immortals
Telsa Carbines
Destructo-Tek [ Court 2]

6x Immortals
Telsa Carbines
Destructo-Tek [Court 2]

Elites (620)
5 x Lychgaurds
Swords and Shields
Eternitek w chrono [ Court 1]
Destructo-Tek [ Court 2]
(Attach Obyron and the Overlord/Anrakyr)

Triarch Stalker
Twin linked heavy gauss cannon

Triarch Stalker
Particle Shredder

Fast Attack (235)
6x Canoptek Wraiths
2x whip coils (3x with Anrakyr)
1x particle caster

Heavy Support (180)
Annihilation Barge

Annihilation Barge

The only restriction on Crypteks is their unique wargear - you can mix and match Cryptek Harbingers however you want.

DevianID wrote:If I follow...
66% chance to hit.
33% chance to pen
50% chance of pen to kill
16% chance to glance
16% chance to glance kill.

Means .111 expected pen kills and .0185 glance kills, for a total expected kill of .13 vehicles of AV14. This means you need ~8 tach arrows to kill a land raider, which cost 240. Seeing as the Land Raider is 240 at the bare minimum, this means that the tach arrow will make its points back so long as the land raider does not have cover.

In explaining that, when you look at the chart that was done for us, basicly if the vehicle costs less than the points indicated, then the tach arrow is worth it.

Thus, when killing Ravagers, Landraiders, storm ravens, ect, the arrow is great for the cost.

That said, this assumes you are taking characters that have the option to buy tach arrows. If you are buying the character ONLY for the tach arrow, it is not worth it. However, because overlords and destroyer lords (and Anyrakyer) are all good necron HQs without considering the Tach arrow, this is not an issue.

Thanks for the explanation by the way

I have played with Anrakyr in 5 games (always in CCB), so far his Tachyon has never penetrated a single thing (and I've only fired at AV11 or AV12)--bad luck partly, but it only takes 1 bad roll of 3 for the shot to mean nothing. I've considered taking a second Arrow on my Overlord, but the "whiff" potential has kept me away. You just really can't count on the Arrow without a Chronometron, but is the Arrow really worth building your list around? It can only do so much, and your HQs have several more reliable (not to mention reusable) tools for anti-armor: CCB Overlords (w/ Warscythe), Destroyer Lords (w/ Warscythe), Eldritch Lances, Voltaic Staves, heck even that Entropic Harp.

I think if you're going to take them, you should just go in expecting them to miss. If they hit, it's a great bonus, but don't count on it. Give your Overlords something to do for the rest of the game, they should be powerful models throughout the entire game, not just on one turn.

Somone pointed out that you can't use the Chrono to re-roll a scatter off a veil move since it's a 2D6 roll (small rulebook p2) not a D6 roll.

It's over the top, but maybe I'd take two Eterniteks with Chronos in the deathstar.
I really like the idea of being able to use those re-rolls in every phase. Of course I'd lose the eldritch lance so I'd be more or less losing the shooting phase anyway.

still two re-rolls could be pretty sweet

Options
Elites (625)
5 x Lychgaurds
Swords and Shields
Eternitek w chrono [1]
Eternitek w chrono [2]
(Attach Obyron and the Overlord/Anrakyr)

Fast Attack (230)
6x Canoptek Wraiths
2x whip coils (3x with Anrakyr)
0 x particle caster

I have played with Anrakyr in 5 games (always in CCB), so far his Tachyon has never penetrated a single thing (and I've only fired at AV11 or AV12)--bad luck partly, but it only takes 1 bad roll of 3 for the shot to mean nothing. I've considered taking a second Arrow on my Overlord, but the "whiff" potential has kept me away. You just really can't count on the Arrow without a Chronometron, but is the Arrow really worth building your list around? It can only do so much, and your HQs have several more reliable (not to mention reusable) tools for anti-armor: CCB Overlords (w/ Warscythe), Destroyer Lords (w/ Warscythe), Eldritch Lances, Voltaic Staves, heck even that Entropic Harp.

You're not wrong. I'm trying for a list that works on it's own with the arrow as a bonus. Maybe a pointless goal but hey, why not right?



Automatically Appended Next Post:

PrinceOfMadness wrote:The only restriction on Crypteks is their unique wargear - you can mix and match Cryptek Harbingers however you want.

Fantastic!

I've been working from an earlier contentious interpretation where you couldn't take a mixed harbinger-type court. That opens up SO many options.

whigwam wrote:I have played with Anrakyr in 5 games (always in CCB), so far his Tachyon has never penetrated a single thing (and I've only fired at AV11 or AV12)--bad luck partly, but it only takes 1 bad roll of 3 for the shot to mean nothing. I've considered taking a second Arrow on my Overlord, but the "whiff" potential has kept me away. You just really can't count on the Arrow without a Chronometron, but is the Arrow really worth building your list around? It can only do so much, and your HQs have several more reliable (not to mention reusable) tools for anti-armor: CCB Overlords (w/ Warscythe), Destroyer Lords (w/ Warscythe), Eldritch Lances, Voltaic Staves, heck even that Entropic Harp.

I think if you're going to take them, you should just go in expecting them to miss. If they hit, it's a great bonus, but don't count on it. Give your Overlords something to do for the rest of the game, they should be powerful models throughout the entire game, not just on one turn.

Good case why it's overpriced when used without a Chronometron. The reroll makes a huge difference.